First, the Mendelsohn angle - Brown's people want to protect him at this stage. He was told by Peter Watt that the Abrahams arrangement was kosher, but had the "right instincts", and determined to put things on a better footing in future. Bet he wishes he'd got on with it a bit faster....

It seems to me he's in trouble though - for a handpicked fundraiser, he didn't seem to know that much about the rules. It is not just with hindsight that secret donations are self-evidently dodgy.

Then Harriet Harman. Lots of questions for her. Critically, how was her £5000 donation from Janet Kidd arranged? It's my understanding that the money was to compensate for her overspend during the campaign (that's why it came in after the campaign ended...)

But who made Kidd/Abrahams aware she was short of cash....? Or who indicated to her that Kidd/Abrahams might be a useful source of funds. Surely this can't have been done completely blind?

Comments

[The Morning Mail 3 Dec 2007 11:25:14]

Angels? Ray...let me see we have Mr 'Cash for Questions' Neil Hamilton and other Tory colleagues, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitken 'Mr Perjury' both ex cons, Dame Shirley 'homes for votes' scandal. The white than white NuCons...shining halos above them all!

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 3 Dec 2007 09:17:07]

Ray Bowles
Well said, every day brings a new problem for this Labour government. Will they ever get any real work done.

[Ray Bowles Manchester 2 Dec 2007 08:56:01]

Morning propaganda
Your credibility has definately gone.No one believes a word you say.
There are smoking guns in every labour dept.T.Blair and his team were far more experienced than these amateurs running our Country.
Postal voting in Birmingham?
Immigration figures ?
Lost Data ?
Cheriegate?
WOMD ?
Jowelgate?
Cash for honours?
Mittels/Hindujas?
Mandelson/Robinson?
The list is endless.
The tories are angels compared to New Labour

[Bruce Hulmes / England 1 Dec 2007 12:35:11]

It appears that Mr Mendelsohn
is the director of upto sixteen companies, perhaps some investigation by the delving press may come up with some interestng snippets.

[The Morning Mail 30 Nov 2007 16:22:55]

Victor, you may be a cheerleader for Dave Shameron and the NuCons but I will not go away. I will remind people at every opportunity of the failures of the NuCons when they were last in Government and all the baggage that brought with it.

I will also keep fellow bloggers up to date on the Lord Ashcroft affair, whether you like it or not.

[The Morning Mail 30 Nov 2007 16:18:14]

There is lovely exciting stuff going on and it is current. You know, the sort of stuff where Cabinet Ministers have held up hands and said, me too.

Extremely juvenile comment. says a lot about NuCons....

[Victor, NW Kent 30 Nov 2007 15:56:18]

Morning Wail

That's not more info about Ashcroft - it is the same old, tired, worn out, cut and paste sloganeering as before, and before, and before.

There is lovely exciting stuff going on and it is current. You know, the sort of stuff where Cabinet Ministers have held up hands and said, me too.

We still have to hear from the other 3 candidates for Deputy Leader. Were they left out when the bonuses were distributed?

You will have to wait until more than a few monomaniacs take an interest in this old and unproven accusation against Ashcroft. It must be low on Ian Blair's list right now.

[The Morning Mail 30 Nov 2007 14:29:01]

Some more info on the Lord Ashcroft matter....

Lord Ashcroft was awarded a peerage, having been nominated by Mr Hague, only on condition that he based himself in the UK.

At the time he provoked further controversy after saying he wished to be known as Baron Ashcroft of Belize - base of his business affairs.

He later insisted the remark was a joke, but was also forced to give up his post as UN ambassador for Belize before taking up his peerage.

Wrekin MP Mr Bradley called for the withdrawal of the Tory whip from Lord Ashcroft and for any future donations from him to the party to be refused unless he proved he was living in the UK and paying British taxes.

"It is essential Lord Ashcroft produces evidence that he did meet the Cabinet Office's requirements before he took his seat and that he still fulfils them," said Mr Bradley.

"If he is unwilling or unable to do so, Iain Duncan Smith must take decisive action."

Lord Ashcroft hit the headlines again after it emerged US investigators were looking at his links to Tyco -a Bermuda based group whose chief executive, Daniel Kozlowski, has been indicted on tax evasion charges.

Interestingly the matter is still unresolved as it appears clear Iain Duncan Smith did nothing about the matter. Neither has David Shameron.

Surprise Surprise....

[Victor, NW Kent 30 Nov 2007 14:16:42]

To Morning Mail

A Life Peer can only be stripped of his right to sit in the Lords by an Act of Parliament. If they felt that had any legitimate grounds to do so then Labour with its majority since 1997 would surely have done so. Since they haven't it is fair to assume that they know any such attempt would fail.

If he had bought the Conservative Party it would be fair competition as Sainsbury has bought Labour and Tesco has other interests.

Did I forget to mention the Hinduja brothers? Put it down to my age. They were large donors to Labour but had warrants of arrest out from India. With the help of Keith Vaz [who else but the Member for Calcutta South], some of them acquired British Passports, others - perhaps even the same ones - also got Swiss passports. Sorry about that.

[The Morning Mail 30 Nov 2007 13:45:43]

For Victor...you have missed my point, please read again thank you..

The subject of Party funding brings me back to the Conservatives favourite banker, Lord Ashcroft, the man who likes the Tories so much he has bought the Party.

If Lord A is not UK resident, his entitlement to sit in the house of lords is itself in jeopardy and should by now have been quite legitimately rescinded.

Still awaiting news on the FOI request. Let's hope inept civil servants haven't managed to lose it in the 'post'....

[Victor, NW Kent 30 Nov 2007 12:09:07]

Morning Mail

Plesae do not display such ignorance as you cut-and-paste the Ashcroft red herring.

A donor is required to be on the electoral roll and making donations in his/her name from his/her own funds. That is the legal requirement. Their place of residence from time-to-time can have no bearing, nor their nationality. A great number of the super-rich have overseas residences like David Beckham, Sean Connery, Lord Sainsbury, Lord Paul, Sir Ronald Cohen, Lord Levy and, for all I know, Mr Mendelson. Some are not even classified as British, like Lord Paul, Sir Ronald Cohen, Mr Mittal and many other large Labour donors.

[Victor, NW Kent 30 Nov 2007 12:00:43]

Not Mandelson but Mendelson this time. It seems he gave Peter Hain the usual sum of £5000 for his own Deputy-leader campaign - no other sum would do.

Hain simply forgot to declare this donation.

I think there were 3 other candidates, Hazel Blears, John Cruddas and Alan Johnston. Were they left out by the Abrahams/Martin/Mendelson charity? And if so, why? They have a right to complain.

Meanwhile a Scottish Labour MEP has also quit after confessing to helping Wendy Alexander gain illegal contributions from non-voting, non-residents.

A long time ago an uncle told me that Conservative MPs get hounded out over by the content of their trouser fronts whilst Labour MPs fail because of the lining of their pockets.

[The Morning Post 30 Nov 2007 10:52:14]

Very embarassing for Mr Mandelsohn to be seen supporting Peter Haine over his other New Lab colleagues for the post of DPM! No wonder they did'nt want the donation made public! O what tangled webs we weave when we first venture to deceive!

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 30 Nov 2007 08:51:12]

Questions, questions? I see the honourable MP for Neath has now held his hand up! Admin error...um. Mr Hain forgot to declare a donation from a certain person, ah explains everything.

[The Morning Mail 30 Nov 2007 01:10:06]

I'm delighted the Police will now investigate the Abraham and proxy donors affair and look forward to any guilty party or parties being given the appropriate punishment.

The subject of Party funding brings me back to the Conservatives favourite banker, Lord Ashcroft, the man who likes the Tories so much he has bought the Party.

If Lord A is not UK resident, his entitlement to sit in the house of lords is itself in jeopardy and should by now have been quite legitimately rescinded.

Still awaiting news on the FOI request. Let's hope inept civil servants haven't managed to lose it in the 'post'....

[trisha bethnal green 29 Nov 2007 21:13:56]

Carol Ann Liverpool
i did listen to GB but the fact of the matter was that Mendelssohn sat on it for 2 months, he didn't check which other labour members may have had dealings with Abraham's, or relay his concerns to them? also GB's first statement where he made it 'clear' that he was only made aware on Saturday eve about this situation, also said that it was just one person Watt etc.. why didn't he know about Mendelssohn's involvement? and if he did why did GB not mention it, why did this only come out on newsnight through Abraham's himself, what would we know now had Abraham's stayed stumm?? not very clear is it carol, just a thought now i am wondering whether Harriet Harmen was deliberately set up by the brown camp, re Lesley, whats your thoughts? it;s certainly getting very messy.

[The Morning Mail 29 Nov 2007 18:06:54]

If the revelation from the Lobby correspondents are accurate and an operation is being masterminded by Lord Ashcroft digging into Labour finance issues I support it and I support those guilty of any wrong doing to face the consequences.

How about clearing up sleaze into all Party funding once and for all. Open your funding books for scrutiny Cammers. Answer the question on Lord A's tax status.

Apparently Cammers is in the States and the President will 'drop in' as a courtesy for an opposition leader, wonder if he will give him any more than 2 minutes of his time? The question remains unanswered......

[carol-ann liverpool 29 Nov 2007 15:27:52]

Morning Post

I think you are engaging in a bit of spin yourself.

Despite your lack of personal insight, thus shielding your conscious mind from the knowledge that you are doing what you accuse others of -

I would like to know whether you are accusing Mr Mendelsohn of doing anything illegal and, if so, where is the evidence?

Maybe you should look at the very strong suspicions that many people have, that a great deal of the extra funding from Lord Cashcroft, has been used to pay for this 'hate' campaign against The Prime Minister, Gordon Brown. (according to a well respected journalist ) ( not SKY journalist)

The Con-Men were panicked into thinking there was going to be an election

Threw a few policies together that didn't stand up to scrutiny, thus giving these Eton schoolboys a headache.

As parents will know there is a stage in childhood called "The Terrible Twos"

That is the stage of development Giddy and Cammers are at,even though they are pretending to be grown ups.

There is a, potentially more serious aspect to this:
According to a well respected journalist (not a sky one)

That much of Lord Cashcrofts money - is being used to fund a 'hate'campaign
against the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown.

So they would be well advised to call the pitbulls off.

It is one thing to spot a problem, it is quite another to provoke it by an improper action

So far there is no evidence to support such a concern....I hope not because that would put Britain well beyond the pale.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 29 Nov 2007 14:15:05]

Oh Oh another of the dreaded "inquiries" Questions Questions, every other day the Labour party has to set up a NEW inquiry. The way this lot are going on there will be no money at all in my pension fund!

[The Morning Post 29 Nov 2007 14:09:59]

Carol Ann

And we Brits are constantly accused of being 'intolerant' by the Muslim faithful. Sixty lashes is hardly the punishment one would expect for a technicle breach of the law as you put it!

[Victor, NW Kent 29 Nov 2007 14:04:38]

So Mendelson is not guilty of anything because he has only been the fund raise since 3rd September. Who was doing the job before him? Must have been Lord Levy.

Meanwhile Jack Dromey has been Labour Treasurer for many years - you know Jack, the one who said "Cover-up, cover-up". Why didn't he know?

Obviously it was all down to Harris but he had only been General-Secretary this year. So, who was General-Secretary before him? First, he wasn't new in the job, he had been doing it for exactly two years.

Before that it was Matt Carter who resigned over the cash for honours enquiry. And he was preceded by the Trade Unionist and sometime Communist David Treisman, now Lord Treisman and Junior Minister for something or the other. That takes us back to 2001 so now we have the names of parties who should have known.

Quite an investigation task for Lord Whitty, even though he held the same post himself at one time so he should know where the tea-bags are kept.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 29 Nov 2007 13:40:03]

Returning the money illegally begot may prove a problem for Labour, maybe they can't afford to return the money. Perhaps they should go and take a loan out at Northern Rock!

[carol-ann liverpool 29 Nov 2007 13:00:15]

Victor

Lighten up? When did you have your sense of humour transplant...?

Well, you may have heard about scousers and humour, but
it is hardly a subject for mirth when a person of Vince 'fame at any price' Cable, compares the Prime Minister to a mass murderer?

Imagine if someone compared Cable or Cammers to Hitler... there would be uproar!

Thing is no-one would say that - no-one could go lower than Cable because he is already lower than a snake's belly.

As regards to the teddy bear thing... What the teacher , Gillian Gibbons, did is what is a common way of teaching and assessing skills required under the National Curriculum in this country.

She has technically fallen foul of Sharia law.

Many respected Muslim leaders in this country believe that she made a genuine mistake - putting her pupils skils first.
The teddy bear, most beloved toy of children across the world, is a symbol of love to most and would not, therefore, be seen as an insult to most people, including many Muslims.

As many have said, there is more to this than meets the eye - wanting to embarrass and invite criticism of the teacher's home country may be one.
This could have been dealt with by an apology from the teacher, as a leading Muslim cleric said today.
Turning it into an international incident is a bit of an over-reaction.

[The Morning Post 29 Nov 2007 12:49:57]

Carol Ann

Spin once again! Where in the letter does it even hint that Mendelsohn was unhappy with the way that David Martin Abrahams was donating his money or that the meeting requested was to resolve this issue? This is pure spin from him and New Labour! He may only have been in post a short time but by God he has great teachers in this respect!

[Brian Christley.Abergele 29 Nov 2007 12:21:54]

Labour’s incompetence beggers belief – the more their money is laundered the dirtier it seems to get.

[carol-ann liverpool 29 Nov 2007 12:16:37]

Trisha bethnal green

So you didn't listen to GBs reply on this issue ?

Mr Mendelsohn had been in post AFTER these donations had been made.

The man has been in post only since September - which many people,working for large insitutions, would see as still in the 'getting up to speed' period.
He was told about an issue which he was told was within the rules - but he wasn't satisfied with.
Mr Abrahams had been both a member and a donor for some time - long before the law came in about 'proxy' donations.

Mr Mendelsohn - in an extremely demanding job, tried a number of times to contact Mr Abrahams to arrange
a meeting failing by all other means, to contact him,
sent a letter to Mr Abrahams inviting him for a meeting.

If someone has been difficult to get hold of, you wouldn't want to flag up what you wanted to say to him and put him off coming to a meeting, on a sensitive issue.

People are focusing on Mr Mendelsohn, but it is reasonable to wonder WHY Mr Abrahams was dodging having a conversation with Mr Mendelsohn - could it be that HE was afraid of something?

[The Morning Post 29 Nov 2007 12:14:09]

Angry of Iver

Legally i assume it should be returned to the named donor who provided the original cheque. It would be poetic justice however if they were to keep the cash and not return it to Mr Abrahams. I doubt that he has a legal claim on it having gifted the cash in the first place! Poetic justice dont you think? Its likely to be the only justice on offer from New Labour!

[angry of iver 29 Nov 2007 11:41:42]

regarding dodgy donations.to whom will the monies be returned? will it be the third parties who havent got money of their own or will it be to the alleged original invisible donor who didn't want to donate?

[Victor, NW Kent 29 Nov 2007 11:32:34]

I cannot see why there is an uproar about Vince Cable's joke. Last week Brown was Blackadder, this week Mr. Bean. Perhaps next week he will be Arkwright and, as he visibly deteriorates he can become Steptoe - the father.

Lighten up - it is not as though Cable had given a teddy-bear a blasphemous name.

[The Morning Post 29 Nov 2007 11:19:32]

Morning Mail

One inquiry at a time please! Lets get to the bottom of the recently exposed New Labour scam before focusing on other parties legally declared donations. If you have firm evidence that Lord Ashcroft is breaking party funding rules then contact the authorites and supply it. They have a duty to investigate and can call in the Police should they choose to do so! Your smoke screen and that for your fellow New Lab luvies wont wash i'm afraid!

[Fluffy, London, England 29 Nov 2007 11:09:00]

So who is responsible for fighting criminal activity in political-parties...? The police or "Lord Ashcroft's private-investigators"...?

What does this say of our political system...? What does this say of the management of the Metropolitan Police...?

And let's not go down the road of state-funding. Party-finance based upon vote-accrued. Does New Labour really want an complete police investigation into their voting-machine...?

[The Morning Mail 29 Nov 2007 10:52:48]

If the revelation from the Lobby correspondents are accurate and an operation is being masterminded by Lord Ashcroft digging into Labour finance issues I support it and I support those guilty of any wrong doing to face the consequences.

How about clearing up sleaze into all Party funding once and for all. Open your funding books for scrutiny Cammers. Answer the question on Lord A's tax status.

Let the truth be out.

[trisha bethnal green 29 Nov 2007 10:19:40]

Has Mendelsohn put Watt and himself deeper in the brown stuff? by saying that when he supposedly queried Watt re the methods of Abrahamns donations, Watt in effect told him that everything was done by the letter of the law, this was plainly untrue, and both people were/are employed in a position, where this would/should have been blindly obvious, and surly a prerequisite of their senior employment positions would be they are fully read on the laws regarding funding and donations. So then after the supposed query, neither Watt nor Mendelson with his misgivings thought to check the detail regarding the law, 'spirit of the law'. Mendelsohn then, decides he will meet with Abrahams to discuss method of donations, 2 months later, with a man that he has had previously bad relations with, also please note nothing in the letter indicates any thing remotely showing concern, in fact it shows completely opposite. and none of these concerns were aired to anyone else? PLEASE DO WE ALL LOOK STUPID..the police need to be called and called by Brown, especially 'if' Browns statement declaring he knew nothing until Saturday evening is true for his integrity to remain intact,(surly this ought to show Brown the contempt his colleagues have for him)
Brown do not defend this blatant law breaking.

[Fluffy, London, England 29 Nov 2007 10:11:55]

I would be interested to see what evidence there is that Lord Ashcroft funded an investigation into "unlawful" donations to New Labour. If he did then questions remain.

New Labour knew that the donations broke the law (which they drafted) and did not notify the police. Why was this...?

Gordon Brown was made aware of the unlawful actions, but did not make a statement until after the Sunday Press released the details. Did he try to suppress this...?

As for the timestamp issue. When someone sends an email via MSOutlook, LotusNotes, or Evolution the email is sent to a mail-server by the client-application. As it is client-driven the message-server will record the receipt-time. Sending the message via the TypePad portal will result in a server-side timestamp (though it is possible to read the header of the message to determine "local-time"). Hope that makes everything clear, unlike the source of New Labour funding...!

;)

[Gnosis 29 Nov 2007 09:37:29]

Lord Ashcroft will be stopped,when he starts paying tax in this country he can do what he wants but until then he must be stopped from funding these smear campains,if he doen't start attending debates in the lord more often he should have his title removed in fact as he doesn't even pay tax in this country he shouldn't even be in the lords.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 29 Nov 2007 08:01:16]

Victor
You are quite right there have been too many expensive, fruitless investigations set up by Mr Brown and his cronies. I have read Mr Mendelsohn's letter to Mr Abrahams, and he sounds quite chuffed that Mr Abrahams had donated a very useful amount of money to the Labour party. Didn't exactly say " the way you are donating is illegal" and only a few days ago the Labour party were going to keep the money! Amazing what a few day's in politics can do to change hearts and minds.

[The Morning Post 29 Nov 2007 07:26:23]

Carol Ann

I am suggesting nothing, I am presenting the facts. How can a man whose miriad of companies only show net assets amounting to 144.000 donate in excess of 600.000 in cash to New Labour? I dont know the answer. Presumably you dont either. Its the revenue's job to know or get to know!!

[Fluffy, London, England 28 Nov 2007 21:00:07]

So the people on the investigating committee are connected to the Labour Party. So what...?

The committee is an internal investigation. Most likely it is focused on finding out why these donations were accepted. Now if Rusty influences the Electoral Commission's investigation that would be of concern.

As for Huhne's request for the Met to investigate the 'illegal' donations, that I have a worry about. Does anyone really trust 'Cur' Iain Blair, New Labour's Policeman...?

[Craig Hants 28 Nov 2007 19:51:44]

Harriet Harmen the woman for equal rights takes money from a man who she does not know come on. Thats like being caught with money u cant account for you would end up arrested in jail . socialism at its best .

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 28 Nov 2007 19:23:32]

Annabelle,
They get a signed photograph and a ten minute ride on his bike, with safety helmet and bicycle clips being provided!

[The Morning Mail 28 Nov 2007 18:53:06]

Interesting comment from a National daily columnist Ben Brogan.....Stepping out of the fray for a moment, I can't help but be impressed by the scale of the operation being run against Labour. My inside knowledge is fairly limited, but the Lobby talk today is of an operation masterminded by Lord Ashcroft, who I'm assured has had a crack team digging away on Labour finance issues for some time. The first fruits of their research appeared this weekend. The evidence for all this is slim: for example, a parliamentary aide to a Tory peer recently put in an FoI request to the Dept for Transport concerning the Durham business park. Whatever the facts, this is precisely the kind of research the Conservatives should be doing. It's certainly what Labour in Opposition did very successfully against John Major. The only difficulty is if Labour decides to retaliate by asking questions about Lord Ashcroft's tax position.

Indeed, time come to come clean Lord A and Cammers...

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 17:57:17]

Chris

It was a journalist who said that, so I took it to be accurate.
But, now that I have discovered how much SKY is in bed with Cammers, now, I will be very careful what certain journalists are saying
I have learnt, since, to be wary of what some journalists say, having found a number of inaccuracies in recent stories.

However, it does not take away from the fact of what Vincent AnyPrice Cable has done, today. Knifed a perfectly decent, long serving public servant in the back. Having pretended to be is friend.
Which says all there is to say about Cable's character.

Tired with the sparkle of the ballroom glitter ball, he is now hungry for the footlights of fame.
He had to think of something really nasty to win the soundbite competiton with Cammers - we will be looking out for a Con Lib /LibCon deal sometime in the future.

I like many Labour supporters am horrified about what has happened, and I don't condone anything illegal or immoral.

But the people who are making these claims are not doing themselves any good printing inaccurate information that is not supported by the facts.

That is why I, as I am sure many more will feel, when the dust clears, angry - I am just trying to restore some balance.
The immature supporters of Cammers and Co and the Young Etonians - have proven themselves to be, by their behaviour, words and actions, unfit to govern this country.

[james marske by the sea 28 Nov 2007 17:50:39]

Martin Abrahams's or whoever he is. seems to be very well known in the Labour party,with connections going back many years
having just watched your 6pm news report from the NorthEast (where I live) it appears that he has also had asperations of power himself, getting selected to be a labour candidate. Are we in fact seeing before our very eyes, magic tricks and slight of hand?This pandoras box is becoming and house of cards and with a slight "breeze" around the corridors of power it could come tumbling down. I disagree with some remarks from commentators who think that labour may "ride" this out. Ask your self the question the man in the street is asking! if it where me? I would be locked up and the key thrown away, one magic trick for the rich and famous another for the poor NOT GOOD ENOUGH ask more questions! for example just where is this smell coming from?

[Annabelle Thomson 28 Nov 2007 17:40:58]

According to Theresa May, the Shadow Leader of the House of Commons, any large doner to the Tories receive a personal visit by David Cameron. Wonder what they get in return for backing him?

[The Morning Mail 28 Nov 2007 17:07:52]

Come on Cammers meet the challenge of transparency in party funding and open up your books for inspection.

[Fluffy, London, England 28 Nov 2007 17:00:34]

"And so are any members of the labour Party who has done anything wrong and is PROVEN to have done something wrong and there is EVIDENCE that they have done something wrong."

Posted by: carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 15:54:29

Gordon Brown said the money was given 'illegally'. Does he have the right to contradict you...?

[Bruce Hulmes / England 28 Nov 2007 16:59:41]

Exactly why do politicians need bank rolling just to apply for an inside job.
Whether it is for the leader or deputy leader, the candidates put their names in the hat and their fellow MPs elect them, why the need for tens of thousnads of pounds in donates and why do some very wealthy individuals need to be financed by others could they not use their own money, pay the backhanders.

[Victor, NW Kent 28 Nov 2007 16:51:27]

Yes Carol-Ann but the good Bishop is not investigating - he is being reported to, there is a difference. He can only consider the findings which are presented to him - if they are inaccurate or deficient he would have no way of knowing. Normally Commissioners take their own evidence and, if necessary, appoint their own investigators. Not that I could care much as the proceedings, cost and findings of the umpteen Commissions of Inquiry over the past 5 years have not pleased too many people from either side of the political spectrum.

There seems to be also a problem that the Inquiry is set up by one who is rather closely implicated even by her own account.

The Electoral Commission, on the other hand, may investigate what it wishes and how it wishes. That will be more acceptable.

[Chris, Baildon 28 Nov 2007 16:48:36]

Carol-Ann, Vince Cable did not STAB Charles Kennedy in the back - he did organise the ousting and then took the letter and handed it to Charles Kennedy in person.

he is the best leader the Lib Dems will not have.

The Labour party have broken the law - it is a criminal offence to give donations in this way - never mind the tax implications of the "gifts" and potential money laundering implications. Even Gordon Brown agreed it was a criminal matter.

The opposition parties are doing what they are supposed to do - make the Government accountable for its actions. Next you'll be saying it's all a right ring conspiracy by the Tories and the press (oh! you have tried that already)

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 15:58:47]

Victor

Isn't there a Bishop involved in the inqury? Did that slip your mind, I know how you like to be perfectly accurate?

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 15:54:29]

Morning Post

I hope you are not suggesting that the Labour Party is associated with a potential tax fraud given that it is Mr Abraham's and any business parner's duty to give accurate information to the tax office?

If anyone has any doubts about Mr Abrahams financial affairs and in particular any doubts about the amount of tax he has paid, that should be given, forthwith, to the appropriate authorities.

One of the hallmarks of this situation, is the disgusting behaviour of Opposition parties.
People stood up, in our Parliament, and were more interested in kicking someone down when, in the past, they have supported them or been perfectly cordial with them.

What it has proven above all else is that what matters to Cammers and Co and Vince Cable is POWER above all else.

Vince Cable managed to stab Charles Kennedy in the back and let the public believe it was Ming, thus undermining his authority. Which has positioned him in a place as a) kingmaker
b) BACK STABBER so that he can be ready to take over the Libdems
Maybe after some mistake that Huhne or Clegg makes - maybe this Uriah Heepish character already has a killer fact that he can use to manipulate whoever becomes leader of the LibDems, we shall see!

Don't be fooled by that old age pensioner persona, this smiling assassin has 'previous'

Cable and Cammers are an insult to all the really genuine MPs who have integrity and work hard for their constituents and who are beyond reproach-
And so are any members of the labour Party who has done anything wrong and is PROVEN to have done something wrong and there is EVIDENCE that they have done something wrong.

[Effie 28 Nov 2007 15:34:16]

isn't that what some of the Labour supporters on here call one of the non Labour supporters that has more Conservative views?

Correct Madnurse but our "Walter Mitty is much easier to identify.
In fact people do not even find the need to identify him.
He does that of his own volition.

[Victor, NW Kent 28 Nov 2007 15:30:53]

Morning Post

You will never get that one about Martin Abrahams's total value past the Faithful. They are already hatching a claim that Lord Ashcroft gave the money to give to Abrahams to give to his employees to give to Labour. In other words, as usual, a Tory plot perpetrated on honest and decent Labour politicians.

You may find that hard to believe, but shortly they will be spouting this as Gospel.

One thing in Brown's favour is that if a police investigation is ever launched it will be conducted by...the Metropolitan Police, led by Sir Ian Blair whose job has recently been saved by Jacqui Smith and Gordon Brown.

Otherwise all inquiries will be headed by Labour supporters. Lord Witty was a Junior Minister in Blair's government.

[Madnurse 28 Nov 2007 15:24:16]

MPSL:

Wow, if that is indeed true then I agree, that is a bigger mystery.
Sounds like a job for a good investigative journalist. Any takers at Sky?

[Victor, NW Kent 28 Nov 2007 15:16:57]

At least Gordon Brown does not have to attend next week's meeting in Portugal of European & African nations. He had already said he would not attend if Mugabe was invited and someone more junior will go instead, carrying the British chequebook.

That will give Brown some time to reconsider domestic problems. It is a good but rare thing in recent years for a British PM to be forced to spend time on UK matters.

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 15:11:58]

This has been dealt with far more swiftly than the situation with the Tories - of course, there wasn't a paper trail there, because, it is alleged, all their deals were done with cash in brown envelopes.. so no paper trail....
If someone is doing something dodgy why would they accept money that can easily be traced?

I am appalled as a member of Labour Party what has gone on - but I cannot stand the hypocrisy of the LibDems and NuCons.. and their sanctimonious attacks on Gordon Brown.
There is no evidence that I can see that GB has done anything inproper whatsoever.
Infact he acted swiftly and decisively once he was appraised of the facts.

[The Morning Post 28 Nov 2007 14:53:29]

Madnurse

Actually the real mysterious question to emerge from this affair is where did David Martin Abrahams find the cash to donate to New Labour? The whole of his business empire show nett assets amounting to just 144.000. This might also be a case for the Inland Revenue to delve a little deeper into!

[Gnosis 28 Nov 2007 14:25:25]

Maybe someone in the media should do a probe into who the tories secret backers who are in the MIC group and maybe a little more investigation into a certain benefactor who lives in BELIZE and has a shadowy record when it comes to paying tax in the uk,lord ashcroft is the victor kiam of politics he liked the tories so much he bought the company.

[Madnurse 28 Nov 2007 14:22:36]

One of the saddest things to come out of this whole affair is that it appears that married couples in the Labour party don't speak to each other.

One of the most ironical things to come out of this whole fiasco is that, the central figure is viewed and named as a Walter Mitty character by Labour, isn't that what some of the Labour supporters on here call one of the non Labour supporters that has more Conservative views?

One of the most mysyerious questions to come out of this fiasco is, where has the "Oh no not another inquiry" thread disappeared to?

[Bernard from Horsham 28 Nov 2007 14:06:00]

I heard an extremely funny joke today that had me in stitches. I thought at the time I would be unlikely to hear a better one any time soon (can't post it sorry), but I take my hat off to Vince Cable, he bettered it.. Just brilliant.
No doubt about who "won " PMQ's, any result other than Vince would be a travesty. (and I'm a Conservative)

[John Sherman, Cephalonia, Greece 28 Nov 2007 13:55:01]

Yet again, New Labour has been caught with their grubby little fingers in the cash till, AGAIN. How much more of this will the country have to take before their party is thrown out of goverment for being on the fiddle?

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 28 Nov 2007 13:43:57]

More questions than answers! The Labour party are heading for cover, close ranks folks. But I think the British people know what this crowd are up too. They have been in power too long and are abusing it at every turn.

[Chris, Baildon 28 Nov 2007 13:43:01]

How people can say this is all a conspiracy of the right wing and the media is beyond belief.

Gordon Brown was a lucky chancellor and an unlucky Prime Minister - however alot of the issues are from decisions he made whilst at number 11 - creating HMRC, underfunding the military (when in 2 wars), selling off gold at the "Brown bottom", forcing the sale of QinetiQ against advice, helping to shaft pensions, creating the most complex tax system in the world, bodging the creation of the FSA, etc etc etc

What good has this government done in the last 5 years? - nothing.

Vince Cables joke was superb and sums up GB perfectly.

First we had Teflon Tony, now we've got BlueTac Brown - all the mud is sticking (with good reason).

[Adrian, Lancashire 28 Nov 2007 13:39:50]

Would be surprised if the Police don't get involved. I mean, some one donated to a party in the name of someone else. That person then says they know nothing of it and don't even support that Party. The whole thing smells of fraud, corruption and/or possible money laundering.

[Effie 28 Nov 2007 13:37:48]

The "judge" is a former Labour party official who is going to report to someone who is a Labour Party official [and who they are embroiled in this]. Great Independent Inquiry!
Posted by: Northernhousewife 28 Nov 2007 12:36:56

Are you casting doubt over the integrity of these people?
Have you never heard of the laws of Lible?
The fact that you perhaps do not have two pennies to rub together would not even come into consideration.
If you have proof that these people are of doubtful character.
Put it up for all to see.

[David Bruce Newquay, Cornwall 28 Nov 2007 13:31:54]

well what can we say about yet another DODGEY incident with this government.....what will happen next????

[Fluffy, London, England 28 Nov 2007 13:30:26]

"One could forgive Gordon Brown for feeling persecuted. Recent events would indicate one hell of a sting operation in progress...."

Posted by: Tony, Berkshire 28 Nov 2007 10:49:27

Somehow I don not think this "Sting" was down to the Tories. Maybe the Booth woman cast a spell...?

[Iain, Manchester 28 Nov 2007 13:18:19]

With this hypocritical government what next? they pontificated in the 1990s slamming the Tories for sleaze but it was junior ministers and backbench MPs and 90% was just sexual. with this lot the sleaze starts at number 10 downing street. A second police investigation now. incompetant, hypocritical & no moral authority to continue in office. they are finished and if they really cared about the people of this country they'd call an election.

[Gnosis 28 Nov 2007 13:12:45]

Its ironic that none of the right wing media seem to be asking cameron if lord ashcroft has decided to pay tax in the uk,i thought you had to be a british citizen and pay british taxes to fund a british political party or am i wrong?

[Wood Green N22 28 Nov 2007 13:04:46]

Mendelsohn... Abrahams... Harman... then you said kosher? I think you made a mistake.

[Northernhousewife 28 Nov 2007 13:00:56]

It gets worse. According to The Daily Politics, the "JUDGE IS AS PLUGGED IN THE THE SCOTTISH LABOUR PARTY AS IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE!!!!".

He is WELL KNOWN to Gordon Brown. If the police do nor get on to this then it will be kicked into the long grass.
Oh yes, that will mean Sir Ian Blair then!!!!

Why, if you are squeeky clean do you need to get your mates in. If you are totally confident, why devalue your investigation!!!!!

I hope the make up of this "Independent" quango will be covered by Sky News.

[The Morning Post 28 Nov 2007 12:58:41]

The election committee must call in the Police if they find that the donations in question were illegal. If they dont do so, then i expect Cameron to lodge a formal complaint. The inquiries activated are nothing more than whitewash. Gordon learnt that ploy very well from Tony Blair. If the law has been broken in respect of illegal payments to the New labour party, the law must take its course.

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 12:54:13]

Northern Housewife

So you don't believe that Lord Witty is a person of integrity?

Well, do you question the integrity of the Bishop who is doingt the inquiry with him?

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 12:45:15]

Now it has been displayed for all to see what a slimeball Vince Cable is. This is a man who, until today, claimed to be a friend to Gordon Brown,
but it seems, power, to him, is more important than friendship

Et tu Brute seems an appropriate phrase for him.

is he auditioning for a Ministerial post in the NuCon party or is he indicating that, the LibDems are willing to make a pact with the Con-men?

I have a friend who is a local official in the Libdems and I know she would be absolutely horrified at what Cable said today, basically becasue it says more about Cables character than it says about Gordon's.

[Northernhousewife 28 Nov 2007 12:36:56]

The "judge" is a former Labour party official who is going to report to someone who is a Labour Party official [and who they are embroiled in this]. Great Independent Inquiry!

[London, London 28 Nov 2007 12:28:20]

So the labour party engage in law breaking with regard to recieving donations and somehow thats a tory sting operation?

[carol-ann liverpool 28 Nov 2007 11:49:14]

Tony

I think you have hit the nail on the head, this is a planned, systematic sting. What is disgusting is that the Con-Men are treating it like a joke, which is disgusting. If people have done wrong they should pay, but the Tories are not about the public, they are about wresting power from Labour by fair means or foul.... mainly foul.

What is worrying, is that it not only involves Cammers and Co, they have even been wheeling out military leaders (supposed to be cross-benches, ha!)
as well.
First the salivating dogs

Then the calming influence of the elders of the party

Wheel out the military leaders - talking about the lack of support for troops

It was these military leaders who failed our troops THEY didn't supply them with the right stuff, in the first place!

They couldn't say anything about it throughout the time the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been going on?

Their latest excuse for not speaking up earlier: it would have been wrong to criticise the government at that time.

WHAT? When our troops lives were in danger for lack of equipment??? It would be wrong to criticise GB?

Sorry wont wash!

If I had been in charge of the army at the time, I would criticse the Queen, the Pope and the Dhali Lama if it meant getting the right stuff for the troops!

How can GB know what is needed unless the generals told the Defence Minister or himself?
They are now finessing it by saying that NOW, that our troops do have the best equipment but we don't have enough helicopters and planes!!

Why is that I wonder?

Could it be that the generals, again, didn't do their job properly!

The Tory Plan?

destroy GBs reputation for financial competence

destroy his reputation for decency

make him look indecisive thus injuring his leadership skills

When the pubic find out the truth, the backlash against the Cons will be much much worse than anything we have ever seen.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 28 Nov 2007 11:12:56]

Because the Labour party have been in power now for some years they have become complacent. They believe that they are untouchable! They are trying to "pull the wool" over the eyes of the British public, this they may do at their peril. The old battle song "things can only get better" has changed to "things can only get worse".

[Tony, Berkshire 28 Nov 2007 10:49:27]

One could forgive Gordon Brown for feeling persecuted. Recent events would indicate one hell of a sting operation in progress. It is of course possible that this lot of politicians, don't know what they are doing or how to do it. True to form when you look back across the party devide. The obvious need to build confidence in our political systems and leaders seems to come last again on all their priority lists.

[Mike Simpson 28 Nov 2007 10:37:01]

David Cameron suggested yesterday that this story raised the whole question of the "arrogance of power"

However, as one would objectively comment in terms of how political parties have funded themselves over many years, none of the main parties emerge as whiter than white.

Isn't it the case that the Conservatives have yet to resolve the issue over accepting donations from the Belize-based businessman Michael Ashcroft? And what are we to make of the criticism levelled at the LibDems for accepting £2.4m from overseas tycoon Michael Brown, who was subsequently jailed for perjury.

Undoubtedly, placing caps on individual donations is easier said than done, as the Democrats and Republicans in America have found out.

[Peter Chuah, Birmingha 28 Nov 2007 10:32:56]

Receiving cash after the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party election was over is certainly ridiculous and being greedy. Perhaps Harriet Harman was hoping that she would not be found out by the press. If found out she is cocky and confident enough to believe that was able wrangle her way out by, confusing the ‘foolish’ British public . Baroness Jay knew that David Abrahams wanted to make a donation to Hilary Benn’s Deputy Leader’s campaign “discreetly” and that he was likely to donate towards more than one candidate. This should sound alarm bells that Mr. Abrahams wished to be known discreetly as an important donor amongst prominent members of the Labour government for certain ulterior motives. The person receiving the donations for Harriet Harman was also likely to know what Baroness knew, so Harriet Harman should also likely to know like Hilary Benn. Therefore Mr. Harman (Labour Party treasurer) was also likely to know, hence Gordon Brown. Harriet Harman certainly should have known and therefore she is being negligent and lacking in judgment! Can we have her resignation of being Deputy Leader (and perhaps MP) today, if she and Gordon Brown (who can insist on this) are supposed to be ‘honorable persons'. We wait and see!

[Peter Chuah, Birmingham 28 Nov 2007 10:32:02]

Receiving cash after the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party election was over is certainly ridiculous and being greedy. Perhaps Harriet Harman was hoping that she would not be found out by the press. If found out she is cocky and confident enough to believe that was able wrangle her way out by, confusing the ‘foolish’ British public . Baroness Jay knew that David Abrahams wanted to make a donation to Hilary Benn’s Deputy Leader’s campaign “discreetly” and that he was likely to donate towards more than one candidate. This should sound alarm bells that Mr. Abrahams wished to be known discreetly as an important donor amongst prominent members of the Labour government for certain ulterior motives. The person receiving the donations for Harriet Harman was also likely to know what Baroness knew, so Harriet Harman should also likely to know like Hilary Benn. Therefore Mr. Harman (Labour Party treasurer) was also likely to know, hence Gordon Brown. Harriet Harman certainly should have known and therefore she is being negligent and lacking in judgment! Can we have her resignation of being Deputy Leader (and perhaps MP) today, if she and Gordon Brown (who can insist on this) are supposed to be ‘honorable persons’. We wait and see!