The Tories have been proudly displaying their latest acquisition - Sajjad Karim, until this morning a Lib Dem MEP for the north west.

Would this be the same Sajjad Karim who, just five months ago, berated "Chameleonic Cameron" for his party's desire to join forces with an openly-homophobic Polish party in the European Parliament?

Seems like Mr Cameron has taken a leaf out of the PM's book, and has started to put together a party of all the talents - even including those who fail to recognise his own...

Comments

[Effie 29 Nov 2007 16:57:29]

There is a vast difference between our army and that of Pakistan, Effie. Our service men and women are just about the only thing we have left that this country can be proud about.

I would never denegrate any body for their past service and also the effort they all put in today.
However, what goes wrong with the mindset of "SOME" people who have been in the services that they cannot let it go.
They appear bodily to have left the Army but constantly dwell in the past, it is although they have never left it.
This remind me of a tale I once heard from a young Houseman who worked alongside an ex-army officer who was an extremely good Sister in the NHS.
It did not matter a jot of how many times they reminded her that she was in the NHS and not the British Army it never sunk in.
Later when the young Houseman became a Consultant, not only did he make her jump, he left her in no uncertain manner that he was "THE CONSULTANT"and she was there to do as she was told and they would do it his way as was the NHS practice at the time and not the army way.
This Christamas we will have once again a houseguest who is a widower and he comes along with one of my siblings who is also in the same unfortunate position.
I have strict instructions that I have got to be seated next to our guest as the rest of the family were tired of jumping out of Aeroplanes into the Radfan.
I cannot put to print what they really said but it was words to those effects, I got left in no doubt about the picture!!!.

[Bruce Hulmes / England 29 Nov 2007 14:06:29]

Military Coup.
Sounds OK to me, but a lot of Labour benefit jockies will not be to overjoyed.

[Patricia 29 Nov 2007 11:32:19]

There is a vast difference between our army and that of Pakistan, Effie. Our service men and women are just about the only thing we have left that this country can be proud about.Trust you of course to take a satirical remark and use it to throw another childish insult about my having been in the Army.I grew up and took my blinkers off years ago, Effie.
Carol Anne, I wish I knew what the hell you are going on about.What has an off the cuff quip got to do with Teresa Mays horrible kitten heels ,or David Cameron for that matter?. We haven't lived in a true democracy for decades, but State control has increased alarmingly over the past ten years.I doubt we could do worse being ruled by our military!.

[Effie 29 Nov 2007 10:49:53]

military coup?. Sounds wonderful!

Posted by: Patricia 27 Nov 2007 17:40:49

Oh! Yes lets have another Pakistan, why don't we.
Grow up woman, you left the army years ago!

[carol-ann liverpool 29 Nov 2007 00:42:01]

Patricia

You have just confirmed what many people feel about Cammers getting into power - he will stop at nothing .. no values, no shame, no conscience, no chance.
Oh and no policies that we can see - no wonder he doesn't want to pin them down - they are so scary ... he can't reveal them!
Don't bank on Britain remaining a democracy if The Eton Boot Boys Get in.

They must be worried coz they are using some old One Nation Tories as human shields.

What happened to the kitten-heeled Theresa May, she looked rather 'blousy' showing an indecent and unedifying amount of cleavage at PMQs! another, like Cammers, with no respect for Parliament,
Maybe someone will buy her a twin set and pearls for Christmas -hope so - put me off my chicken ciabbata!

[The Morning Post 28 Nov 2007 10:03:16]

Gordon Brown has already had ten years to build a strong and vibrant country and failed miserably! Why would two more years make any difference other than negatively, as the ecconomy built on massive debt and low growth unravels? Furthermore Browns fiscal black hole is currently circular 70 billion and rising sharply! A 6.5 billion 'imaginary' Tory black hole would be a marked improvement dont you think?

[Mike Simpson 27 Nov 2007 22:56:15]

Victor, sorry to disappoint you oldchap but the current froth and media circus, is just that. It will all be forgotten about in a number of weeks just in time to see Cameron getting buried under a series of bad headlines, like the ones that Gordon Brown has been hit with (though in his case, a lot of things have been outwith his control).

The bad news for David "Charlatan" Cameron is that all the skeletons in the Tory cupboard will come back to haunt him just in time to redress the balance of political debate. Of course, we are some two and a half years away from an election, which will give Gordon Brown plenty of time to build Britain as a strong and vibrant country, show up the Tories inept and disastrous policies that are based on 'Alice in Wonderland' economics, with a massive £6.5bn blackhole at the current time.

I am also sorry to deflate you Victor, but I predict that opinion polls will fluctuate wildly over the forthcoming weeks and months and come Election Time, they will bear no resemblance to the situation at the current time.

[Patricia 27 Nov 2007 17:40:49]

A military coup?. Sounds wonderful!

[Victor, NW Kent 27 Nov 2007 14:16:38]

Carol-Ann always has something to amuse us. Now it is an imminent miltary coup against the government engineered by Cameron.

Actually, Cameron hardly needs to move a finger to bring down this government - it is simply disintegrating before our eyes.

Brown's next U-turn will be on the extension of Detention Without Trial - promised in the Queen's Speech but no longer politically possible.

Shortly, the reshuffle and axing of Ministers will commence but he has no high cards in the pack, only deuces and one Jack. Perhaps Jack Straw is positioning himself to step in as PM?

Where are Labour in the latest poll? 27%.

[carol-ann liverpool 27 Nov 2007 12:54:30]

It is no surprise to find that
Cammers is two-faced, we knew that all along.

We can all see that he can't win his arguments fair and square so he has to go for a military style coup.

If he had his way, Britain will cease to be a democracy.

It is obvious that he has no real policies and can't fight democratically he has no sbstance and he is too lazy to do the hard work So, he has his attack dogs looking to bring down the government.
He is using, through intermediaries, his journo mates, to do so.

[The Morning Post 27 Nov 2007 11:02:03]

Personally i view all cross overs from whereever to whereever with the utmost distrust. Its usually done by a disaffected MP trying to make personal gain and profit. It should be banned! If you want to cross over then go back to your constitiuency, explain your motives to the electorate and resign thereby allowing your constituents to vote again. For or against you and your former party!

[Victor, NW Kent 27 Nov 2007 09:55:58]

Morning Mail

The Times can and will reveal that Mr. Karim's attack was not weeks ago but in May. I have already dealt with the actual statement.

Politicians who cross the floor always carry some baggage as did Quisling Davies whose fierce attacks on Gordon Brown melted to praise when he joined Labour.

However, it is once again "two legs bad, four legs good". And we all know who is Napoleon Pig.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 27 Nov 2007 07:57:57]

Effie
I know what it is like to live in a Labour controlled town, I hail from Mr Hain's neck of the woods, Labour heartland--seat for life! I once heard that a "dog" could stand for parliment in some up north constiuency and it would be elected for the Labour party, but an independant stood and beat Labour. There is always hope eternal Effie.

[The Morning Post 27 Nov 2007 00:19:31]

Never having been in the military i doubt that you would understand that one of the first things they thrust into your hands after emlistment is a rifle! They thrust it into mine at the age of 15 years!

[Fluffy, London, England 26 Nov 2007 23:20:49]

I don't hold with turn-coats. They are as believable as the claim that Liverpool is a paragon of crime-fighting.

But then I'm a sarcie armchair commentator. I am not a politician.

[Mike Simpson 26 Nov 2007 23:20:26]

I seen Sajjad Karim on Sky News this morning read out why he had jumped ship to the NuCons, but felt that he was paying rather too much attention to a prepared script, perhaps from Con Central Office?

Interesting character he is, not sure if I would trust someone who is on record as saying and I quote from Karim’s blog this June:

“Whilst Cameron attempts to paint a glossy image of a gay-friendly party in the UK, he is also desperately trying to get into bed, at European level, with Poland’s openly homophobic ‘Law and Justice’ party. I just hope the British public see Chameleon Cameron for who he really is!!!”

With "friends" like this, who needs enemies?!

[sanity calling 26 Nov 2007 21:40:46]

Effie
Sadly, the tax payers of the home counties and the south are getting a bit fed up with paying for everything and everyone north of the Watford Gap!!!!

[The Morning Mail 26 Nov 2007 19:01:36]

The Liberal Democrat MEP who today defected to the Tories personally attacked Conservative leader David Cameron only weeks ago for being a "chameleon", The Times can reveal.

Sajjad Karim accused the man who this morning became his party leader of building an alliance with "openly homophobic" politicians in the European Parliament.

Today, however, Mr Karim was gushing in his praise for Mr Cameron, claiming that the Conservative leader's "incredibly impressive" recent speech about immigration had persuaded him to leave the Lib Dems.

What a difference a few weeks make and what a stench of hypocrisy all round.

[carol-ann liverpool 26 Nov 2007 18:52:01]

Considering that Labour, according to some experts, have done things that even Mrs Thatcher wouldn't have had the nerve to do,

I am surprised that Cammer's Conners, on this blog, are not cheering Gordon from the rafters.

Maggie put thousands on Incapacity Benefit, Gordon has taken thousands off and now he has to retrain them.

I think he should ask Cammers for compensation!

What a fickle lot they are !

If you think it bad now, you will be screaming even louder if Cammers gets to be PM.

Hope none of his supporters ever fall on hard times - it will be the new workhouses (with posh names )for them.

Like Ronald Reagan said, 'You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet'*

(*this quote was attributed to Al Jolson, the American entertainer)

[TheMorning Mail 26 Nov 2007 18:38:41]

A defection I have to laugh...an obscure Liberal MEP. Oh well, maybe this will give the Europhiles in Cammers Con party the upperhand.

[carol-ann liverpool 26 Nov 2007 18:21:27]

Philip

My view is that there are more supporters of Cammers Conners on here because they do seem to attract the opinionated, the arrogant and controlling, prejudiced and chauvenistic types.

There are one or two right wingers on here who try to be a bit more objective and intellectual and I have respect for them.
Sadly, the opposite is true of others who are not worth arguing with because their agenda is to destroy the Labour Party.

It has nothing to do with democracy.

To that end, they want to dominate the news and politics blogs and attack anyone who does not agree with them until they have total control so their views then dominate.

I really believed Cameron when he said he would have no truck with prejudiced people.

He needs to have a chat with some those who have set them up as his -lieutenants on here - lead by the hysterical Jon Craig.

Can't he ever report a anti-Labour story in a calm voice?

He loses moral authority by his obvious glee that he has found something nasty to throw at Labour.

[carol-ann liverpool 26 Nov 2007 18:01:31]

Resignation of Peter Watt

I always know when Jon Craig feels he has scored a goal - he always gels his hair down!

He gives away the real position he takes by talking this up to the position of a cause for impeachment - it is a serious matter, yes, but not something to get so utterly hysterical about.

I would rather listen to a calm and measured presenter than a school-boyish rant.

I have come on here to express my views because very very few of my replies to anything he has written ever
are ever put up.

That is what I would call biased. That is what happens in Third World and Eastern Bloc countries not in the UK.

He is not the kind of presenter/political journalist that SKY was rightly proud of in the past.

I would put a tail on him - he will probably be round at Cammer's club later for some champers.

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 17:34:04]

Whoops. General Sec of the Labour party has resigned...cos he has broken the rules. Don't get his reason....its not mandatory for Labour ministers why should it be for him?

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 17:12:07]

Effie, I guess you've not heard that SNP are to form a coalition with the Tories here in Scotland.
Mandy, Glasgow. 26 Nov 2007 16:17:40

Yes Mandy I did read this at the Weekend, these Tories will never hang themselves will they?
What I would like to know is this.
As the Conservatives have always claimed to be the Conservative AND Unionist Party. How do they square the circle by getting into bed with the same people who are openly out to destroy the Union.
At least give Salmond his due he is completely open about it.
Why is Cameron hiding in the closet or is this his hidden agenda?

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 16:49:39]

I was a little younger than that when i first experienced combat! I was 16.5 years of age
The Morning Post 26 Nov 2007 16:01:23e

You like i carried arms and put our lives at risk in defence of this country. I was 15 at the time.
The Morning Post 21 Nov 2007 16:49:20

Not exactly what you first claimed though was it, or is this a defective memory lapse?

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 16:48:42]

Carol=A|nn

One thought on why this blog may have more pro-Tory than pro-Labour comments.

Maybe its because there are more people in the country who are pro-Tory.

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 16:46:30]

Effie can't answer a question can she? Perhaps all she can do is rant!

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 16:42:04]

Carol-Ann

I and millions of others long for the day when an MP with 6 years experience will lead our great country through the many difficulties caused by the last 10 years of NuLab.

[Madnurse 26 Nov 2007 16:25:18]

My view is that when a MP switches sides he should stand down and seek re election. Although we do vote for an individual on the ballot paper, we are in fact voting for a party as we have the party system in this country.
If a candidate stands under the banner of a particular political party, then they should seek re election if they change sides.

I feel the party system and the pressure imposed on MPs by the party whips, undermines democracy in this country.

[Mandy, Glasgow. 26 Nov 2007 16:17:40]

Effie, I guess you've not heard that SNP are to form a coalition with the Tories here in Scotland. My guess WOULD have been Scotland would be spitting at this news, but, it seems the far right in Scotland will stop at nothing.

[carol-ann liverpool 26 Nov 2007 16:08:34]

Philip

I am just trying to redress the balance on this blog, seeing that it is top heavy in Tory and other right-wing views. (and now that Sky seems to be turning into a party political broadcaster on behalf of the Tory Party.)

You look at the reporting over the last four weeks and tell me that you haven't seen far more Tories in the Sky studio than Labour commentators.

I am not saying that there hasn't been hypocrisy by other parties, I am saying that Cammers, taking the moral high ground, is hypocritical in the light of his own flip flopping on various issues and his tendency to change policy on the telly - I feel the chances that he had consulted others about havng a referendum post ratification, is pretty slim!

He shows absolutely no shame in attacking GB at PMQs for things that he has been guilty of himself!
He has lost all moral authority, in my view, because of his own lack of morality and social responsibility.

Wasn't he the one who said he wanted to end the 'Punch and Judy politics' of the HoC ?

I hardly think his behaviour supports that contention.
He also has no respect for tradition - not respecting the Speaker on a number of occasions.

I liked him at first when I took him at face value and was worried about him being a threat to Labour.
Now that I know more about him, I can see that there isn't any real substance there.

Despite his Shakespearean attempts to play to the gallery, I would say that he should go back to working in the media or write a couple of books for Mills and Boon.

Is 6 years as an MP sufficient experience to lead our great country through the many difficulties we face in the future?

[The Morning Post 26 Nov 2007 16:01:23]

The youngest soldier to die in the Falklands campaign was just 17 years on age on Mt Longdon. I was a little younger than that when i first experienced combat! I was 16.5 years of age having joined up at 15 years of age. By the way the UK is the only country that still sends under 18s into conflict situations but i expect you knew that already!

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 15:17:56]

Labour called the former soldier, Patrick Mercer "a racist" before they asked him to join Brown's big tent.
He left, as they as in the army, quick smart.

Posted by: Northernhousewife 26 Nov 2007 14:23:44

Not by all, he was an officer in our Counties regiment, the self same regiment my husband was in, he is highly respected, a lot of people came out in his defence which is more than can be said about Conservatives posting to a certain blog-site who only just a couple of weeks ago pulled this MP unmercifully
to pieces.
Do not deny it I read it for myself.

[Victor, NW Kent 26 Nov 2007 15:17:25]

The Polish Law & Justice Party was, until a week or so ago, the government of Poland. Kim Il Blair did a pact with them and Italy over the red lines when he assented to the EU Treaty. How dare he make a pact with an openly homophobic party?

The truth is that the Law and Order Party is openly Catholic as is most of the population of Poland. That church does not support gay rights. It is hard to see them having any other position.

Personally, I am getting a little tired of politicians who are there only to trumpet about one issue like this man, like Nigel Farage, like Nadine Dorries, like Harriet Harman, like David Lamy, like Keith Vaz and like George Galloway. They are elected[and paid] to represent their constituents but end up speaking only for themselves and some narrow section of society.

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 15:09:28]

Effie

Would that be a "no" then?

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 15:06:10]

Some New Labour cadres on this blog have defective memories!
Posted by: The Morning Post 26 Nov 2007 14:26:13

Not half as defective as some though and when asked they usually can come up with facts and figures for instance:
When was the last time in this Country that a 15 year old was sent into war bearing arms?

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 15:02:43]

Hopefully under his new banner he can please his constituents!
Posted by: Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 26 Nov 2007 14:15:55

Elizabeth, the part of this Country which he represents will be spitting blood, like the East Midlands,The West Midlands, The North East, Wales and Scotland, they mainly detest all things Tory.
If you lived in this Country you would know that no life exists for Tories North of the "Watford Gap" They fall of the end of the world if they venture past the Watford Gap.
Tories have a few seats but not many, they are a party of the Home Counties and the South, nothing else.

[Bruce Hulmes / England 26 Nov 2007 14:45:18]

Phillip, Bristol.
Have you also noticed how our Labourites on this blog have a common interest in keeping Labour in power...Benefits.
Supporting Labour is not about what they assume is best for the country but what is best for themselves. But most so called socialists are from the same mould.

[Bruce Hulmes / England 26 Nov 2007 14:39:50]

Effie.
When did Blair and Brown etc change their stance on nuclear weapons, nuclear power
war mongering, puting British people at the back of the queues not backing British industry implemtation of the death penalty by armed police.
ETC ETC ETC.

[The Morning Post 26 Nov 2007 14:26:13]

Tony Blair wanted to pull out of the EU once. Now he wants to be its first President!

Lord Kinnock wanted to pull out of the EU once. Now he has half his family working for it!

Lord Kinnock wanted to abolish the House of Lords. now he sits in it!

Labour opposed every bit of industrial legisation Lady Thatcher placed on the statute books but repealed none of it!

Labour opposed every privatisation brought about by the Tories but never re-nationalised any! In fact they continued the sell off where she left off!

Some New Labour cadres on this blog have defective memories!

[Northernhousewife 26 Nov 2007 14:23:44]

For those of you interested in the general trends:

An independent local Councillor AND a Labour Councillor have just defected to the Tories in Derby
.
A local Labour Councillor in Suffolk has also just defected to the Tories.

No doubt they all said rude things about their new friends when they were enemies as all politicans do. Labour called the former soldier, Patrick Mercer "a racist" before they asked him to join Brown's big tent.
He left, as they as in the army, quick smart.

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 14:18:28]

Effie

You seem to be able to read the first part of my posting with ease. Would you like to comment on the rest?

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 14:17:16]

Carol-An (predictably) says:

"Ah, but isn't hypocrisy the hallmark of Dave's Con-Party, these days?"

Half right. Us more fairminded people realise that hypocrisy isn't the province of just one party. Unfortunately they are all at it. From Greens to Labour. Great pity.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 26 Nov 2007 14:15:55]

I do not believe in "floor crossing" as the voters who put you into parliment always feel cheated!, if they wanted a Conservative MP they would have voted for one. But I can also see that the Lib Dems are very wishy-washy and really have no chance of being the party of government, so understandibly Mr Karim wanted to change his colours to get some of the action in future. Hopefully under his new banner he can please his constituents!

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 13:58:37]

Oh my Giddy Aunt, OMG!!,
"People don’t change their whole political stance in a few weeks"
What a howler, who wrote the last and most right wing manifesto ever for the Tories?
Who was the Author?
David Cameron, who else!!

How many policies and beliefs did he turn on their head in under the space of one year, not even that in some cases?
It would take me an hour at least to list!!
You could not make it up!!!

[carol-ann liverpool 26 Nov 2007 13:49:52]

Ah, but isn't hypocrisy the hallmark of Dave's Con-Party, these days?

Mr Karim will be in good company.

[Khalid 26 Nov 2007 13:47:40]

Yet again as we "Re-Wind" to many a moment in the world of the politcal "Artful Dodger", poltics has shown that despite matters past, parties can show a side that is perceived in the national interest. However, will he be bringing past party leadership views or will he remain the course?

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 26 Nov 2007 13:40:06]

They are all politicians together, and when they are rated below Estate Agents in the list of most trustworthy people, why should any of us be surprised at their actions!

[Bruce Hulmes / England 26 Nov 2007 13:31:09]

Effie.
No MP should be allowed to cross the floor so to speak, without going to the voters.
we have enough "cross dressing" as it is.

[Paul, London 26 Nov 2007 13:06:52]

Exactly the kind of thing that makes people loose faith in politics, any old MP seems happy to prostitute their views to any party - Disgusting.

[Effie 26 Nov 2007 12:52:03]

Would this be the same Sajjad Karim who, just five months ago, berated "Chameleonic Cameron" for his party's desire to join forces with an openly-homophobic Polish party in the European Parliament?

When the last defector went from Tory to Labour, the Tories screamed Bye Election, Bye Election, are they still screaming or do we have another Tony Lit one of Cameron's Conservatives?

[Philip, Bristol 26 Nov 2007 12:43:27]

Before the usual tirade starts. I think Cameron should be very wary. It must be very flattering to have a defection to one’s party but he should be suspicious of motives and not fall into the trap that Labour do of trumpeting such a defection however great the temptation. People don’t change their whole political stance in a few weeks. However, DC is a politician and I don’t hold out much hope for it not being trumpeted.

On a further matter, no one will convince me that a couple of people (at least) on this blog do not have a monetary reason for peddling unbelievable tripe to support the government. They make themselves look very stupid with this type of blinkered attitude. I myself am willing to look at both sides and certainly see the Tories failings (of which there are many). Unfortunately I can not see any redeeming feature with this government with its daily calamities, apparent deceptions and hypocrisy.

So, to those of you who purport to see the PM and this government as beyond reproach, honest and true. I really do hope they are paying you well.

[The Morning Post 26 Nov 2007 12:31:33]

Just the kind of PC correct politican the Tory's dont need! I guess that Cameron graduated from the same school of hypocracy as Brown did accepting this cameleon into the party. i wonder what the carrot was? Guess we will find our soon enough!

[Peter Chuah, Birmingham 26 Nov 2007 12:27:53]

I can assure you that no one will want take a leaf off Gordon Brown's book with a 'barge pole'. Talking to a politician with perceived homophobic views does not make a person into a homophobic. What is the big deal then for the said Sajjad Karim joining the conservative party, months later? In any case, it is not illegal to be homophobic and most real heterosexual men certainly have an aversion to romance between two men.