...things look pretty much the same as they did before round-the-clock licences were introduced...there's still alcohol-fuelled disorder and there's still no cafe culture!

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[carol-ann liverpool 6 Mar 2008 23:01:25]

The binge drinking culture was established long before the 24 hour drinking laws - the extension of the drinking time has only made matters a bit worse than they were before: mainly because people didn't realise the extent of 'the disease'.

It is time alcohol was treated like tobacco and drugs and that health warnings be put on ALL types of alcohol.
The damage done by alcohol makes smoking related illnesses pale in comparison.
There is a whole raft of illnesses caused by alcohol.
Mental health is affected by alcohol.
Child poverty is caused by alcohol
Murders often have alcohol related to them
Violence and rape are often sparked by alcohol.
It goes on.
It is, after all, a poison so it will have the effects of a oison: i.e. brain damage and other organ damage of varying degrees.
The damage caused by alcohol has a devastating effect on people and families and it goes on for generations.

What many adults don't realise who sit watching the telly as they consume large quantities of alcohol without the benefit of optics to measure their level of alcohol consumption is that their children are learning how to depend on alcohol to relieve stress, rather than dealing with their problems in a more postive, pro-active and open way.
I have seen at first hand and in stark and horrific terms, the results of alcohol abuse and I am absolutely convinced it is the major scourge of our society and is just as dangerous as drug use.
Another worrying factor is that many people are now combining heavy alcohol use with drug use - goodness knows what the future cost is going to be in terms of health-care, including mental health-care as well as criminality and jail costs.

This should not be a party political issue - it is too serious for that.
ALL parties should be considering their policies on this because it is also a leading cause of absenteeism from both work, school and college.
Some employers prefer to employ older people in particular jobs at the weekend because they have suffered from high rates of absenteeism of younger people in those jobs due to alcohol bingeing.
My husband and I dread becoming ill and requiring hospital treatment at the weekend because of the number of drunks that are lined up in A and E, especially from Friday night to Sunday night -which means having to wait longer for help.

So it is already having a huge impact on the way we live and work and I am sure the real costs are much much higher than we know.

There is no one thing that is going to stop it, it requires a multi-agency, multi-pronged approach but it is a matter of urgency to deal with young children who have become alcohol dependant because they are the most at risk from serious damage to their health.
The first time I realised the full extent of the impact of alcohol abuse by children, was about two years ago when I took my granddaughter out to eat and I saw four childlren aged between 10-12 passing what I first thought was a bottle of lemonade around in the street, as I got closer it was obvious that the children were drunk and the bottle was half full of spirits.
No-one likes to be a 'snitch' but this situation is one that needs to be reported to the police and social services as a matter of urgency: it is a 'child protection' issue.
I would appeal to people to report binge drinking by children because it is just as bad as seeing a child run over the consequences could be just as bad.
Parents should be prosecuted IMHO if their children are found drunk in the street.
The law needs to be changed to make alcohol consumption by children illegal and anyone supplying them with alcohol should be treated the same as those who supply them with drugs.

[Peter, Fife 6 Mar 2008 10:54:33]

Dave, Northants,

Examine the information you proffer:
A dedicated partier.
An admitted binge drinker.
Students; full time / part time; with / without an income
Was your observation of students at university?
Were you sober enough for the whole period to deliver an objective opinion?

[Big Dave, Northants 5 Mar 2008 17:26:56]

Well I can't speak for the demographic of the entire country, but I can only tell you what I have seen and experienced my entire adult life. I partied hard in my day, including binge drinking, from Lands End to Inverness and I have socialised with every class. you could think off. Trust me, a lot of those binge drinkers are not hard up at all. Well, some would be without credit! Employing them is one thing. Going out on the lash with them is quite another. Thankfully I don't drink anymore. Things have gotten rather crazy out there in the town centres. And I have never met a more binge drinking culture than that of British Students. Well, maybe British Squaddies!

[Peter, Fife 5 Mar 2008 14:16:10]

Dave, Northants,

No, I disagree; those whose income leaves an excess after the weekend’s imbibing fall into three categories;
1. Those who have no friends with equal money who wish to drink on weekdays
2. Those who are fearful that drink/hangover will restrict next week’s / month’s earnings, i.e. next week’s drinking money
3. Those who are fearful that non attendance could end their employment and their income / drinking money
I speak from the experience of employing most of the classes you give and quite a few more; we had a system at one time which produced a high reward every second week which produced a two week of both low and high production through alcohol consumption / non attendance:
Week 1: High wage; from previous weeks work
Week 2: high alcohol consumption = missed working hours = low wage the following week.
Week 3: low wage and alcohol consumption = scheduled hours worked = high pay the following week.

Students with money to burn, I think not.

[Big Dave, Northants 5 Mar 2008 13:38:55]

Your a bit wrong there Pete thinking that most of these binge drinkers have little disposable income. A lot of them are professionals and public sector workers on a good wage. And a good portion of them are Managers. The problem really lies with the monotomy of Mon-Fri, 9-5 office work. When Friday comes around people leave their offices and get ready to party. So come Friday we have the Chavs, The 'Shirts', and the Students hitting the town. Quite a mix I can tell you!

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 5 Mar 2008 09:57:06]

john essex,
I totally agree with your zero tolerance view, and this certainly works in Dubai where a considerable quantity of alcohol is consumed. If you behave yourself you have nothing to worry about, but if you misbehave you are in trouble, and drink driving carries a one month prison sentence.
A drunken British tourist, who assaulted a friend of mine in a Wimpey Bar, was jailed for four months and then deported, so it is not difficult to understand why crime is at a low level in the U.A.E.

[Peter, Fife 5 Mar 2008 09:12:33]

Jon, cephalonia, Greece,

“...B'liar, wanted 24hr opening not to creat a cafe culture, but to ad to the Nu Labour Tax culture...” (copied verbatim)

What utter nonsense; those individuals who binge drink and cause mayhem in city centres by and large only have limited funds, hence the problem only exists 2 - 3 days after pay day; this group spend their money until it is gone, no thoughts to rationing their funds for the whole week hence opening licensed premises longer only increased the likelihood that the same amount of available funds may be spent sooner after pay day than was the previous case.

The take to the licensed trade and to the treasury remains the same although the duration of the spend may be reduced; ask any city centre licensee, they would be as well putting up the shutters Monday to Wednesday.

I believe Tony Blair was more intent on targeting the ‘culture vultures’ of London Town permitting them to partake of cocktails after the theatre and the opera.

There is a culture problem with alcohol in the UK that is caused by age prohibition; ban a product to a certain age group and they view this as a challenge.
I am not suggesting for a minute that age limits be removed but I do believe that certain supermarkets raising their alcohol purchasing policy to 25 year olds is more about avoiding company fines and negative publicity rather than the responsible selling of alcohol.

Education is the answer, show the real outcomes of alcohol abuse to those in school, warts and all; I’m sure the PC brigade will want to protect their little angels, the same angels who blight the lives of many of our citizens.

[john essex Guildford 5 Mar 2008 07:33:18]

24 hour drinking was a deal done for financial reasons by a very inexperienced and naive labour government.No thought for the aftermath,nor the consequences.It made supermarkets more profits and of course the government benefited from billions in alcohol duties.Drinking on streets increased.Town centre violence increased.Alcohol fuelled violence by teenage yobs increased.We will never have european cafe culture unless we severely punish the drunks,pubs,clubs.Basically the lunatics(teenage yobs)have taken over the asylum(the streets)ZERO Tolerance is the only answer but this weak namby pamby soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime government just havent a clue.

[Jon, cephalonia, greece 4 Mar 2008 17:44:17]

It is not the amount of time the pubs stay open for, it is down to the fact that a section of the British public feel they have to drink themselves stupid.

B'liar, wanted 24hr opening not to creat a cafe culture, but to ad to the Nu Labour Tax culture.

Im going to my local taverna in a few moments time, I will have a couple of drinks with the the locals and expats. We will talk, have a laugh, etc. What we wont be doing is mouthing off, drinking so much that we are sick, or having fight with someone because they knocked into us whilst going to the bar.

The young Greeks, Germans, and Americans here on this island do not act like this, so what has happened to the British? Something has gone very wrong, and nothing is being done to solve the problem. Putting the price up on booze is not the answer, it just spoils things for the people are do like to have a sensible drink.

[Philip, Bristol 4 Mar 2008 16:59:58]

A total failure...at least Bottler stays consistent.

[Philip, Bristol 4 Mar 2008 16:58:44]

You mean....you mean...Teflon and Bottler had it wrong. Awwwwww....I was really looking forward to sitting in the piazza....watching the young people sipping their wine and chatting....and thinking back to the days when they would have been puking over the table..

I don't believe it....but they promised.......

[Effie 4 Mar 2008 16:52:07]

24 hour drinking was perhaps the daftest of Blair's policies and that takes some doing. The village idiot could have told him it would only worsen the situation.Yet another New Labour failure.
alan mcpartland dublin 4 Mar 2008 16:27:36

You are so wrong Alan.
Why should a few badly behaved minority spoil things for the law abiding majority.
No government encourages young women to behave like this.
I read an article where it said that the fertility rate was falling in young men because they felt threatened by the rise of the Ladette.
I am not surprised how can you expect any male to respect any female who does not even respect herself.
If these young women want to be treated like ladies they should learn to behave like them.
But then there are far too many women these days who wear the trousers not only in their own homes but outside also and their wimps have to contend and go along with it.

[Khalid 4 Mar 2008 16:47:47]

Well [Dj Tiesto} when MPs congregate in the house, they say its a [Lethal Industry] yet they can't make their mind up. So, do pub prices come into line with supermarkets' or the other way round darling?

[Peter, Fife 4 Mar 2008 16:41:11]

Most of the individuals who appear worse for wear on our streets at the weekend are most commonly those who have little or no financial commitments.

The generation that 'blows' its available money during Thursday, Friday and Saturday with the extreme possibility of something left on Sunday; if those who supported and ‘subbed’ them for the rest of the week were to say no then these individuals would need to budget for the whole week.

Ask anyone involved in the licensed trade, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday they would as well putting up the shutters.

[alan mcpartland dublin 4 Mar 2008 16:27:36]

24 hour drinking was perhaps the daftest of Blair's policies and that takes some doing. The village idiot could have told him it would only worsen the situation.Yet another New Labour failure. At least Brown has had the good sense to cancel the casino in Manchester nonsense so they have'nt completely lost it. Of course there was no public demand either for 24 hour drinking or for super casinos, so why did New Labour persist in foisting them on the British people. Food for thought I think. Does democracy include listening to the voters or pandering to special and vested interest groups; and at what price????