Sky News has learnt that 3 members of the Liberal Democrat front-bench will resign this evening after voting for the Conservative amendment calling for a referendum on the EU Reform Treaty.

They are countryside spokesman Tim Farron, justice spokesman David Heath and Alistair Carmichael who speaks on Scotland and Northern Ireland.

No confirmation from party HQ - officials' phones are going straight to voicemail, a sure sign that all is not well.

Comments

[Monty, Craghead, Co, Durham 8 Mar 2008 14:57:48]

It is a disgrace to all the English people who have lost there lives in all the wars.Have they no honour.I for one will never vote again for any of the party,s in power or not If the Queen and Brown sign the treaty we will not get a chance.

[neither/niether 7 Mar 2008 12:23:28]

Another 3 seats for one of the other parties, surely they won't want to stay in the Liberal party now..But which one?

[carol-ann liverpool 6 Mar 2008 15:44:16]

Jon Essex

Don't take on, so, dear - think of your blood pressure!

The only thing I am supporting with regard to the issue of the referendum is 'common sense'.

The fact is that apart from the interest groups like UKIP, Tories etc and the lad's comics, there just wasn't a big public reaction to the referendum issue.
I am just pointing that fact out, that is all.

I do feel that if the public HAD shown real opposition to this, the government would have been foolish not to have taken account of it.

Some people believe in God some don't - fact

Some people believe that the EU document was a TREATY
Some people believe it is a CONSTITUTION - fact.

The government line is that they have negotiated so many 'red lines' with regard to our currency, laws and so on, that it is no longer a constitution and is thus only a Treaty and not subject to the manifesto promise.

The opposite argument is that it is indeed a 'constitution' in all but name because it will have the same effect as a constitution.

So, you pays your money and you make your choice.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that everyone else agress with you, however much you would like to think or believe so.
You cannot say that those who voted against a referendum are bad in any way because that would be like saying people who don't believe in God are bad - and, patently, that isn't so, because we know that some people who DO believe in God can be very bad indeed.

So those who voted against a referendum have done so because of their BELIEFS - i.e. they believe that no referendum is needed because they don't believe the Lisbon document is a constitution but is, infact, a treaty.

Just because you didn't get the decision YOU wanted doesn't mean that those voting against it are bad people.

[Fluffy, London, England 6 Mar 2008 10:20:24]

A lot of Europhiles are celebrating their victory [sic] over the "tabloid press" as the government have broken an electoral mandate. Are they not ware that the first to oppose the EU Treaty/Consitution was the Europhile "The Economist"?

Are they also aware of said publications anticipated path following the implementation of this Treaty? They predict that Britain is "sleepwalking" away from the EU. [A.k.a, British independence. A good thin!]

Please put down your copy of "The Guardian" and your latte, and go and talk to the average Joe....

[john essex Guildford 6 Mar 2008 09:12:08]

Carol-Anne will be the last one standing for this inexperienced,spinning, undemocratic and wasting taxpayers money and laughable Government.It will be lonely and you will be ridiculed as having no principles/vision nor understanding of the real UK.

[Peter, Fife 6 Mar 2008 09:09:58]

Has the price of cheese changed?

Has the Liberal Leadership changed?

Cheese prices will follow the market.

Will Liberals follow their Leader?

Calls for Vice Cable to step up to the oche?

Leadership of the Liberals anyone?

Six month contract!

[Joe Bramley 6 Mar 2008 06:46:56]

is SKY - the goverment the lib dems and the EU aware that our human rights are being violated?

"UN Declaration of Indigenous Rights of Indigenous Peoples
As adopted by the General Assembly on 13th September 2007.

The Declaration establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity, well-being and rights of the world's indigenous peoples. The Declaration addresses both individual and collective rights; cultural rights and identity; rights to education, health, employment, language, and others. It outlaws discrimination against indigenous peoples and promotes their full and effective participation in all matters that concern them. It also ensures their right to remain distinct and to pursue their own priorities in economic, social and cultural development.

Includes :

Article 7.2 "Indigenous peoples have the collective right to live in freedom, peace and security as distinct peoples"

Article 8.1 "Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right not to be subjected to forced assimilation or destruction of their culture."

Article 8.2 "States shall provide effective mechanisms for prevention of, and redress for:
(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;
(d) Any form of forced assimilation or integration;
(e) Any form of propaganda directed against them

Further as the following shows the Liberal notion of the British population as successive waves of immigrants is simply a BIG LIE

"The genetic evidence shows that three quarters of our ancestors came to this corner of Europe as hunter-gatherers, between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, after the melting of the ice caps but before the land broke away from the mainland and divided into islands."

[Joe Bramley 6 Mar 2008 06:39:59]

what people are yet to realise is that the EU can now grant itself ANY power it so wishes.

if it wants to nuke Iran, there is nothing we can do, we cant vote them out.

if it wants to go to war with Russia, again nothing we can do.

if it wants to conscript our young men in an unwanted war, again nothing we can do.

if it wants to build gas chambers and gulags for the oposition and `undesirable` groups, again nothing we can do.

the stupid socialist/communists think its great as they think it is communism.

but it is an imperialistic dictatorship run buy the corporate globalists.

we will soon be reduced to the conditions and wages of the Chinese - remember, NOTHING you can do, you cant vote them out and they wont let you protest.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 6 Mar 2008 06:28:32]

I watched Mr Clegg give his post vote interview, wow... the body language was pretty grim, the only thing they didn't show was him stamping his feet. His attitude seemed to be how dare they contradict me! and not follow orders, so much for democracy, these MP's were doing their job trying to give the people a say on Europe as promised in the Lib Dem manifesto.
Mr Clegg appeared like the schoolyard bully, with the attitude " wait till I get you outside".

[Ross, Greenock 5 Mar 2008 21:02:16]

Wow! a lot of people are getting hysterical, and I'm sure most have not read the treaty or the old constitution. I am against a referendum because most people will form an opinion driven by what they read in the press, not on the facts. If those against the EU treaty truly believe that the press tell the whole truth about this speak up now!!!

[Steve Day Co Durham 5 Mar 2008 19:30:37]

I like what I just heard on the radio " Show me a member of the Labour Party and I will show you an untrustworthy liar" Never have truer words been uttered.

[Chris 5 Mar 2008 19:05:02]

We are heading for serious trouble in this country, while we have this currupt Party in Governement.

The do NOT represent the UK.

Dangerous times ahead.

[Graham Pearson 5 Mar 2008 18:31:37]

Message to Carol-Anne, If you think it,s only the Cons and UKIPs getting wound up over this you are sadly mistaken, many of the right dis-honourables in the Labour party are going to pay a heavy price for this betrayal, signed ex labour voter of over 40 years

[Faceless Bureaucrat, Whitehall 5 Mar 2008 18:30:16]

A sad end to a once honourable Party. Their only hope now is to move to replace 'Calamity Clegg' with either Huhne or Cable asap - as it stands now, the Lib Dems do not even have credibility as the Party of Protest...

[Craig Hants 5 Mar 2008 18:17:34]

why do we need our own government when the eu decides on 80% of our laws.I would support the eu if all national governments were scrapped .Its like going to work doing nothing and let the boss take the flak.only thing is the mps here will still be payed for things out of there control no more voting for me why bother they cannot do anything

[Graham Pearson 5 Mar 2008 17:57:20]

Hope the mps voting against a referendum, at least have the good grace to have their headed notepaper changed to The Right dishonourable

[Philip, Bristol 5 Mar 2008 17:32:37]

C-A

It ain't finished yet..not by a long way.

[Khalid 5 Mar 2008 17:04:03]

Alas, someone is [Walking Away] to join [Craig David] Any way Phillip, You were right the first time round!

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 5 Mar 2008 16:58:44]

T.M.P.,
The so called concern for our troops, expressed by our politicians, is pathetic, and can you imagine what would happen if the E.U. ever had control of our Armed Forces. If this happened, most of the other countries would disband their Forces and let the U.K.'s do all the fighting, which I suppose isn't so very different from the current situation!

[Mentor - Northumberland 5 Mar 2008 16:54:56]

Carol Ann:

Is it lonely being in such a despised political party, numbers are falling I understand.

Why would that be?

And someones reference to the EU being a creeping to a EUSSR - is 100% correct!

[Dave 5 Mar 2008 16:47:59]

The Morning Post

The EU is one of the most corrupt and spineless organisations imaginable

We are about to go from being a democracy to a dictatorship which is pretty remarkable for the country that’s regarded as the birthplace of modern democracy around the world

Our brave men who’ve fought in centuries past and present to protect our freedom and democracy did so in vain it would appear?

So that one-day we'd all be subjects of an overseas, unaccountable, corrupt regime

Can you imagine the reaction in the USA if NAFTA, which was set up to be the equivalent of the EEC, was to develop as the EU has done

There are already many plans in process for such an evoloutionary phase

There would be rioting in the streets if they were to wake up one day having to obey petty laws and pay taxes etc to an corrupt, faceless, unaccountable regime based in lets say Quebec

"No taxation without representation"

One quick look at the history books will quickly tell you that no regime that ignores it's people and rides roughshod over them is destined to last very long

What is most intriging is that the processes going on in the EU becoming a superstate are by no means unique, if you look at the African Union, Union of South American Nations etc they are all following roughly the same paths

I'm no conspiracy theorist but you do have to ask the question of what is the true motivation for all these countries wanting to give up their national sovereignty so readily and why are they all doing so

I have no idea why

Free trade between countries is a good thing and can be achieved without having to surrender the right to govern ones self, yet this is the path we and others around the world seem to be going along

Even if this "treaty" was to be thrown out and people believed the EU superstate was strangled at birth you can cast iron guarantee it will just re-appear a few years latter dressed up as something else as thats what the EU do, they need to find a reason to exist, as otherwise they serve no usefull purpose if member states are allowed to govern themselves

I can't quite remember which eurocrat said the following phrase, but the "treaty" would come back in a new form as we as we "didn't vote the right way last time"

[carol-ann liverpool 5 Mar 2008 16:45:01]

Oh Dear, the UKIPs and the Cons are getting all wound up about the fact that the vote on the referendum won't happen if the arithmatic adds up as expected.

EUSSR????? Hah, They will be talking about Reds under the Bed next!
The Labour Party is far from being left-wing, that is why some Labour MPs are voting against the party line!
At least when you criticise Labour, don't use such dated and redundant stereotypes!

If you talk about Labour in such a way then you must think that Cammers is also left-winger because there are so many things that Labour has done that he agrees with.

On paper, there is really little between Labour and Conservative!
However, we haven't seen their manifesto, yet: it is - according to Dave - "In a drawer somewhere"
Ah but is that drawer in Britain or is it in Belize?!!!

[carol-ann liverpool 5 Mar 2008 16:36:51]

Dave

I don't think you can take it for granted that LibDem MPs constituents are against a referendum without knowing them a bit better than their MPs do!

They may well have discovered that their constituents are split on the issue - or don't care about it, we just don't know.
Just because a few people feel strongly about a referendum doesn't mean that everyone does.

Despite newspapers and Conservative Futures, and UKIPs and all the usual suspects trying to talk the referendum UP and despite all the money that has been thrown at getting the people to rebel on the issue..... Zilch, Zero... apart form the interest groups and the political anoraks, no-one else much cares. I am not suggesting that is a good thing, I am just stating it as a fact.
So Cammers scored a few cheap points today knowing full well he will never be called to account for his duplicitous behaviour.

[The Morning Post 5 Mar 2008 16:05:50]

Steve Day

Bet your mortage on it! Blair will be the first President of Europe......

[raz 5 Mar 2008 16:03:14]

lib dems have no credibility to be a political party now to abstain is appalling

[Steve Day Co Durham 5 Mar 2008 15:53:41]

The UK voted in the 70s to join the EEC a busniess partnership nothing more, No one voted to join a political union, the EU, which is rapidly becoming the EUSSR, and Naturally they will want Blair as the first president of this socialist super state.

[Steve Day Co Durham 5 Mar 2008 15:51:34]

Wow three Lib Dem MPs with a sense of honour, pity about the rest and the unscrupulous dishourable mob on the Labour benches

[Malcolm Forfar 5 Mar 2008 15:48:33]

"but the Government says the Constitution has been abandoned"

I wonder - is that the constitution of the EU or the United Kingdom?

Gordon Brown, your a turn-coat!

[The Morning Post 5 Mar 2008 15:37:47]

Dave

What the hell did we fight for what the hell are our boys in Iraq and Afganistan fighting for? EU allies who refuse to back us and fight alingside us it seems but who will govern us eventually one way or another!

[Peter, Fife 5 Mar 2008 15:27:39]

Well that answers one of the 'who' questions.

[Dave 5 Mar 2008 15:23:58]

Good grief, a Liberal Democrat with a backbone

Surely not

Every single one of their other party members should hang their heads in shame or resign also

Their "leaders" position on this subject is so laughable it is beneath contempt, especially when considering some of his past rmarks in regards to this subject when an MEP and that's before even mentioning the career destroying interview on newsnight last night

They should well remember that they were voted in there to represent the people of their constituancies, to "abstain" from such a vote as today is clearly demonstrating that they neither listen to nor care about those they represent

I hope that when the next general election is called people remember that when it comes to issues of national importance they couldn't give a damn and will "abstain" like a petulant toddler throwing his rattle out of a pram if they feel they are not going to get their own way

Pathetic !!!

[Mentor - Northumberland 5 Mar 2008 14:38:38]

The Whole HoC should resign, a General Election desperately needed - NOW!

[Philip, Bristol 5 Mar 2008 14:35:48]

Whoops...I was a bit quick and posted on the last blog.

To say again...at least three have some honour then....