Brown repeats Blair's message: "We've done a lot, but we've got a lot more to do."

Comments

[carol-ann liverpool 14 Apr 2008 14:44:15]

stephe

He was also handed rat infested and delapidated NHS hospitals with not enough nurses and huge waiting lists. While specialist surgeons were using the tax payers facilities to do service their private patients.
Even when the poor had to wait 18 months for an operation, you could get it done by the very same surgeons in a couple of weeks -funny that.

Tories also left us with thousands of Victorian schools with leaking rooves and very limited equipment and parents doing fundraising to provide pencils and excercise books.

If it is true that they left a surplus - is it any wonder when they didn't spend any money on public services and that was why they were in such a parlous state when Labour got into government.

No mention of the people who died on excessively long waiting lists of treatable illnesses.
No mention of the number of elderly people spending months and even years on hospital wards because there weren't any nursing homes to take them.
No mention of stroke patients who did not have access to rehabilitation and ended up more severely disabled.

It is an idle boast to say the Tories left a surplus after they had bankrupted so many people, put so many people in negative equity, presided over a huge number of repossessions adn sold of social housing stock and forced the poor into substandard private housing that was about to be demolished but had to be saved for the poor.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 11 Apr 2008 16:06:10]

Stephen
My Mother told me when I was a child in the fifties that America made huge amounts of money out of WW2, Britain got broke, I will never forget her words.

[Stephen Williams 11 Apr 2008 13:50:34]

Elizabeth,

You right, unfortunately the coffers are indeed empty unlike back in 1997 when Gordon Brown was handed a 30 billion surplus on a plate from the last Tory chancellor Ken Clarke but he simply frittered it away as Ken Clarke said in the past & repeated it recently, “Labour chancellors always run out of money”

How times have changed dramatically for the worse.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 11 Apr 2008 12:43:47]

Stephen
I have been saying for a long time the cost of the wars would come home to roost. There is no surplus at the treasury, the coffers are empty, just like the late 40's and 50's. Britain needs to end the wars and rebuild the country.

[Peter, Fife 11 Apr 2008 10:45:46]

Betty,

I note that it is only you who chooses to use the word alcoholic
I shall no longer comment on any of your posts.

[Stephen Williams 11 Apr 2008 10:16:47]

Did anyone else hear Gordon Brown the other day naming Societe Generale in with the affected financial companies when trying to back up his lie that the current economic downturn was a result of the credit crunch due to the sub-prime crisis & nothing to with his own economic incompetence?

He reeled off the names of companies that have been affected namely Northern Rock & Bear Sterns but including Societe Generale is complete & utter rubbish as we all know that had nothing to do with the credit crunch as it was caused by one of their own Paris based traders losing billions of dollars through fraud.

It has taken the credit crunch to expose his own economic incompetence because he simply didn't factor in a fail safe into the UK Tripartite banking regulation system when he set it up whilst still chancellor. If he set up a fail safe into the Tripartite regulation then Northern Rock would not have been so exposed & failed so spectacularly.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 11 Apr 2008 09:15:57]

Peter the Piper
Here you go again assuming I am an alcohlic, as I stated previously...very offensive and far too personal.
In your posting about the accident in the bus in Romania you made an accusation about Sky News and Adam made a reference to you in his post, especially to put you straight because you got it wrong, look it up and check for yourself.
You keep accusing me of things which are untrue ie:
My poor english
My "drink" problem
My imaginary friends
My poor debating skills
My confusion
My use of the NHS
The list is endless Peter and quite frankly I genuinely believe you are pedantic, and quite rude.
Please keep your accusations to yourself.

[Victor, NW Kent 10 Apr 2008 20:01:43]

We have spent a lot but we can still tax more and spend more....

[keith in croydon 10 Apr 2008 18:45:09]

threres so much more to do? more immigrants to import more like more speed camaras more road humps more useless laws more tax more criminals to let out theres so much more to do like lose your seat at the next election

[Peter, Fife 10 Apr 2008 17:47:05]

Betty,

Are you sure about your consumption levels as you claimed:

"...You make assumptions about people, you picked on Adam the other day over the mishap in Romania, he corrected you..."

I think you are confused.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 17:02:50]

Peter the Piper
I never go to the beach, you have been mis-informed by a certain person, don't believe everything you hear.
I do enjoy a glass of wine but I am a normal person, not an alcoholic, I am a person and enjoys life.
You do not know me, but I do find you quite offensive. You make assumptions about people, you picked on Adam the other day over the mishap in Romania, he corrected you.
Please do not get personal. I have said before my life is personal but I felt I must put the record straight here.

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 16:05:37]

carol-ann,

I wasn’t aware if Liverpool had local council elections on May 1st for your information as I only concern myself with elections in my area were I have a vote.

I don’t appreciate the “thick” insult as I never intentionally direct personal insult towards other bloggers on this site; I’m firm but fair in my views.

I asked you a simple question but never expected to be insulted, least of all by you carol-ann.

[Stephen Williams, London 10 Apr 2008 15:52:05]

John Delaney,

Thanks for telling me who I should vote for, much appreciated chap!

If you regard wanting to reverse the PC brigade & binning the ridiculous human rights bill so criminals can’t hide behind it because once they commit crime they have no human rights then that will obviously come across as being right wing so pardon me for wanting some in politics to grow a pair of balls & a backbone because I'm afraid that the last PM with balls & a backbone was Maggie Thatcher.

I'm sorry I care about the state of the country that I live in, I'm a Tory & not a BNP supporter even though they are right about there being to many foreigners here thanks to your party's open door immigration policy, however nobody can agree with the BNP ways of going around beating up the foreigners themselves as that doesn’t solve anything.

I’m firm but fair in my views John so get over it!

[carol-ann liverpool 10 Apr 2008 15:18:05]

Stephen

I suspect you already know the answer to that question and assume that it is not merely knowledge you seek.
I would have to think that you are 'thick' to assume otherwise.

Ask me another about Particle Physics or Rocket Science!

[John Delaney 10 Apr 2008 15:12:38]

Elizabeth,

Whilst I agree that the bigger picture surely has to be that the Zimbabwean people finally get democracy after suffering for years under Mugabe's reign, at the same time you obviously appreciate that the cynicism has to be that the British taxpayer is not bled dry yet again by Labour for a problem that is not our's.

British companies supplying goods and services to rebuild the country will be good a good thing after all but I as a taxpayer am simply fed up of paying for the rest of the world's problems.

Posted by: Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 11:09:57

Thats because you are so right wing in you views yoiu should give your vote to BNP

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 13:52:17]

Carol-ann

Just a quick question really as I wondered if you have local council elections in Liverpool next month on May 1st?

[Peter, Fife 10 Apr 2008 13:35:07]

Betty,

I had no intentions of making Victor look silly, you clearly do not understand debate; either that or you have just returned from the beach after quaffing a bottle of South African Wine; your daily ritual if my memory serves me right as you related the same to Effie.

I will permit you to position yourself such that judgement can be passed upon yourself by your own comments.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 12:29:52]

Peter the Pedantic
You really need to control that temper of yours. I merely pointed out that you were "nit picking" as you knew what you had posted and then pounced on Victor to make him out to be a fool.
I just thought it very petty, sort of picking a fight when there isn't really anything to fight over.

[Peter, Fife 10 Apr 2008 11:48:59]

Personal attacks, which are chosen as a substitute for reasoned debate are a clear indicator of those cannot sustain their point of view; such attacks merely justify my stance, a stance which is based wholly on facts and data not on gossip and stories from imaginary friends.

[Victor, NW Kent 10 Apr 2008 11:36:30]

Peter

I read what you said. I do not listen to the electoral broadcasts of any of the parties.

If it was supposed to mean £220,000 to each secondary school then it might have been better for the author of the promise to remember something of his/her education and phrase the promise correctly.

As you quote it the money goes to Head Teacher.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 11:27:51]

Victor
Methinks Peter the Pedantic is trying to lead you up the garden path here.
In his posting he did say "220,000 for every secondary school head", but didn't complete the sentence.
Very misleading, quite a number of people here have quoted him as stating that as a fact. Just "nit picking" on his part.

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 11:09:57]

Elizabeth,

Whilst I agree that the bigger picture surely has to be that the Zimbabwean people finally get democracy after suffering for years under Mugabe's reign, at the same time you obviously appreciate that the cynicism has to be that the British taxpayer is not bled dry yet again by Labour for a problem that is not our's.

British companies supplying goods and services to rebuild the country will be good a good thing after all but I as a taxpayer am simply fed up of paying for the rest of the world's problems.

[Peter, Fife 10 Apr 2008 10:51:53]

Victor,

I though you would have checked the source of the information before commenting;

The thread, the video clip; to detail exactly what is said starting at 1 minute 30 seconds into the video clip:

“... on average an extra £220,000 for every secondary school head to improve their schools...”

Check it for yourself.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 10:31:48]

Stephen
You are probably right, Gordon Brown hanging on to his "phoney throne", bit sad really.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 10:26:15]

Stephen
Please try and think big here. The UN need to go into Zimbabwe and remove Mugabe, leaders such as Gordon Brown have the power to make it happen. In the reconsruction of Zimbabwe British companies would supply goods and services to rebuild the country, surely that would be good, no handouts please!

[Victor, NW Kent 10 Apr 2008 10:11:25]

Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 08:29:49

You say that each Head teacher is to receive £220,000 - a triumph by New Labour.

I have done some research on this claim [which apeared to be preposterous] and find that, excluding some Inner London schools, the maximum pay scale this year is touch over £98,000.

[seb/uk 10 Apr 2008 10:00:50]

Hey Gordon,why don't you use your own money to buy popularity in a America.

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 09:59:59]

Elizabeth,

A general election of Gordon Brown? That’s a bob hope & no hope scenario I'm afraid. I won't be holding my breath as Gordon is still in the middle of his vision ha ha!

What he really means is he isn't finished giving all our money away yet to all the poor countries with a hard luck story, as I have said before the only vision I want to see of Gordon's is the Pickford removal van when he finally leaves No.10 when he & his shower of brown stuff that hits the fan of a government are finally removed from office which unfortunately will be later rather than sooner as they cling onto power until the last possible moment as they know what is coming for them at the next general election.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 09:29:28]

G King and Stephen
You could always text message Mr Brown and ask him for a general election the number is on the screen.

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 09:28:40]

Elizabeth,

The trouble is though that you can see Gordon Brown armed with a pen ready to write another huge cheque paid out of taxpayer's money for the reconstruction of the Zimbabwean economy if Mugabe is finally removed from power.

[Stephen Williams 10 Apr 2008 09:20:38]

Craig,

Well said, Gordon Brown's latest cash giveaway is £100 million to fight malaria so yet again more of our taxpayer’s money slung down the black hole of poorer countries.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 10 Apr 2008 08:52:54]

If Brown really wants to help Africa, then get the UN into Zimbabwe fast and remove Mugabe, or there will be no children left in that country to cover with mosquito nets!

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 19:12:06]

Elizabeth,

I agree it has become boring as everyone could see what I was trying to get Peter to acknowledge & on that note I have made my last comment on the subject so I am calling a score draw as you say.

[Craig Hants 9 Apr 2008 18:19:38]

Dont worry everyone Browns fake smile is on show with G Clooney promising more money for africa.Never mind Darling says all is well just more tax and higher inflation.have a great day everyone

[Fellipe, England 9 Apr 2008 18:19:18]

Stephen

Peter Pedant does this all the time

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 9 Apr 2008 17:08:38]

Peter Fife is nothing if not pedantic, I think the subject of who was stabbed in the back by their party and left office etc is now becoming very boring. Stephen please call a draw quickly before we all fall asleep. This is all ancient history.

[seb/uk 9 Apr 2008 17:06:57]

Gordon Brown was declared an unopposed winner.

Yeah they couldn't find anyone with the courage to challenge him.Maybe now they see the damage he's doing to their party they might find some guts.

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 16:45:11]

Stephen Williams,

"... but there was a leadership vote in the first instance..."
Yes but there was no winner of the said election.

John Major was declared an unopposed winner.
Gordon Brown was declared an unopposed winner.

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 16:17:31]

G.KING,

I was the same as you but I voted for Labour again in 2005 because I believed that the economy was still strong as I was only voting with my mortgage in mind, but never again while there is breath in my body will I ever vote for Labour in any form of election again.

[G.KING SUSSEX 9 Apr 2008 16:01:43]

I am ashamed to admit that I voted labour in 97 and 2001.I got carried away with the euphoria/spin and charisma of a young enthusiastic Blair.
What a mistake I made.I feel well and truly conned.I would have preferred to have been conned with the letter/email scams.At least there is an end to a scam.You lose money and feel a fool.Unfortunately being scammed for 11 years is another matter.

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 15:43:50]

Peter,

All I did was simply copy & paste the results from 18 years ago to clarify to result of the leadership poll at the time.

Margaret Thatcher failed to win by the then required 15% more than the nearest opponent & so stepped down which is when John Major put his 'hat into the ring'.

The Conservative Parliamentary Party obviously felt no need to hold a 3rd round of voting once Michael Heseltine & Douglas Hurd conceded defeat but there was a leadership vote in the first instance.

Gordon Brown was never subjected to a leadership vote at any point in time which is a fact that you can’t ague.

I also really don't know why you feel the need to mention what “true conservatives” refer to as, as that was never part of my point to you, I doesn’t bother me what name I use to refer to the Tory party as, I only vote & support them, nothing more or nothing less.

[Chris, Baildon 9 Apr 2008 15:38:51]

Bruce
I agree with you - both parties have done both good and bad things to the economy.

I have stated many times that New Labour didn't do too bad in their first term - it is the last 8 years of tax and wasted spend I am against (not to mention Iraq 2 war).

Bottom line for Gordon Browns government - after about 15 years of growth and 10 years in power he has left the economy in an appalling state - with no flexibility left to try and cushion the current crisis. For that alone they deserves to be kicked out.

Never mind the wasteful spending, appalling levels of bureaucracy and controls, inept taxation and benefits systems, and the over complication of virtually everything.

[Bruce Hulmes 9 Apr 2008 14:58:28]

Both parties have had turns each at completly messing this country up, it is just that Labour are more experienced and more efficient at it.

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 14:15:20]

Stephen Williams,

A fair amount of wriggling; if as you claim John Major was 2 votes short of the required majority and I do not contest that, he only achieved the leadership after his two rivals withdrew he therefore was never elected to Leadership of the Conservative Party, merely achieving Leadership by default.

His rivals cannot switch their votes after the poll has closed, well not in proper elections.

John Major never achieved Leadership by election as he failed in the first ballot and he was unopposed at the second ballot; hence there was a Coronation.

Gordon Brown was unopposed at the first ballot, possibly indications of the Labour Party not being as divided as the Conservative Party.

NB. True Conservatives never refer to the party as Tory or Tories this is most commonly used by some of the Northern factions of the Conservative Party.

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 13:31:40]

Peter,

I have checked up on the facts on the Wikipedia web site of the Tory party leadership election in 1990 & John Major never entered until the 2nd round of voting as below,

1990 (Heseltine challenge to Thatcher)

1st Ballot 20th November 1990

Margaret Thatcher 204
Michael Heseltine 152

2nd Ballot 27th November 1990

John Major 185
Michael Heseltine 131
Douglas Hurd 56

(Heseltine and Hurd withdrew and endorsed Major, who was thereupon declared
elected without a further ballot)

We were both slightly wrong Peter but obviously we were along the right lines.

[Fellipe, England 9 Apr 2008 13:18:21]

Here is Gordon Brown’s five-step plan to escape blame for the credit crunch.

1) Blame America for the credit crunch, present Britain as the innocent victim of a global storm.

2) With a straight face, claim the economy is well-placed to withstand the crunch, even though the UK household debt/income ratio is the highest in the G7.

3) Present a fake narrative of the early 1990s, and compare it with equally fake stats about how good things are now.

4) Point to Bank of England rate cut as proof you are helping (even though, by making the BoE independent, no honest politician can claim credit/blame for its decisions).

5) Encourage journalists to blame lenders for “failure” to pass on rate cuts

[Fellipe, England 9 Apr 2008 13:03:13]

Look...lets get this straight. The Tories completely messed it up last time...ok!

Now that's out of the way what has that got to do with Labour messing it up for the last 11 years and why can't we give the Tories another shot?

They can't be any worse than this lot and I think 11 years with totaly different policies is worth a shot.

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 11:50:37]

Peter,

That is what I meant by ‘the Tory party’ as the Conservative Parliamentary Party so it's simply a figure of speech.

I remember very clearly that John Major had the most votes on the 1st round of voting but fell 2 votes short of an outright victory but soon after that Michael Heseltine & Douglas Hurd both conceded defeat which gave John Major the 2 votes that he required & so it avoided a 2nd round of voting.

I honestly can’t remember a 2nd round of voting as Michael Heseltine’s & Douglas Hurd’s concessions handed John Major victory, unless the Conservative Parliamentary Party still held the 2nd round of voting knowing full well that it was a foregone conclusion but as I have said, I really can’t remember.

Gordon Brown was not elected by the Labour Parliamentary Party which is a fact that no one can deny.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 9 Apr 2008 11:33:03]

Peter Fife
I have just read your post.
All this talk about the Conservatives being the ruin of Britain is very unrealistic.
The present PM was Chancellor during most of the reign of "labour terror" since 1997.
The government of a country has a duty to manage the finances of the people to improve their lives and to grow business. The CEO of Britain Gordon Brown has kinda messed things up a bit.
The list is long of all the problems the ex-Chancellor present PM has caused.
Yes "stars in their eyes" competitor Tony Blair was a pretty good performer, he could charm snakes, but he was not the best PM Britain has ever seen. Gordon Brown inherited a a crown of thorns, but he was so determined to be PM he didn't think it through in his zeal for power.
What happened to Britain during WW2, Britain went broke, it took years to get Britain back on it's feet.
The wars that Tony Blair started are going to destroy Britain, it's time to call it a day, the coffers are empty of money and the price too high in lives, who are Britain protecting in the wars, certainly not the shores of Britain.
Britain deserves a new start, which it can't get with Labour, people are seeing that now and they want change, there are even whisperings in Whitehall, the game is over.
I think you are being very unfair blaming the Conservatives for the current crisis in politics in Britain, as I have said Labour have been in power since 1997, and what has been achieved by them ...up to your necks in war, a decline in business confidence, immigration out of control, NHS in confusion..the staff disallusioned. Education going in all directions. Crime out of control and prisons overflowing. Almost everything Labour has touched has turned to dust.
They do say, stand back take a fresh look at things, and sometimes it takes courage to say "I was wrong", can this Labour government do that say they were wrong.
I know you will say to me mind your own business, but Britain is my homeland and it distresses me to see a once Great Britain go to the dogs!

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 10:44:03]

Stephen Williams,

“...I have pointed out on numerous occasions before that John Major was actually elected by his own party as Tory leader & also obviously PM as a direct result of that vote when he succeeded Margaret Thatcher...”

No Stephen he was not elected by his own party, he was elected by the Conservative Parliamentary Party on a second ballot, having failed to achieve the necessary percentage / votes in his favour on the first ballot; as no Labour politician from the Labour Parliamentary Party stood for leadership of the Labour party against Gordon Brown, his was indeed a Coronation.

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 10:29:05]

Victor, NW Kent,

You have missed my point; so many who post on this blog seem to indicate that for the past eleven years all that has been delivered and enacted of the Government has been to the detriment of the nation, a stance which by extrapolation indicates that all of those who voted for Labour in the second and third terms were either stupid or naive.

If the country went downhill from 1997 to 2001 why did so many people vote Labour back into Government in 2001; equally if the country went downhill from 2001 to 2005 why did so many people vote Labour back into Government in 2005?

The clear answer the country did not go downhill and those who post such nonsense insult the intelligence of the British voter; I for one never bought into the Blair message, but Tony Blair surrounded himself with shrewd advisors; I still maintain Tony Blair was the best ‘performer’ that I have ever listened to and watched at the Dispatch Box.

Of course all has not went well, such outcomes can only be found in fairy stories; all Governments have ups and downs, all Governments make mistakes; where greed, corruption and malice aforethought are the driving factors these motivations present a whole new category of Government’s errors of judgement.

The country has changed from the position that was left by the Major Government, a position which indicated a clear recovery of the economy; however mature voters have long memories and the Thatcher / Major years will still play a major part in where voters in Scotland and the North of England place their cross on the next GE ballot paper.

[Stephen Williams 9 Apr 2008 10:19:24]

Peter,

I have pointed out on numerous occasions before that John Major was actually elected by his own party as Tory leader & also obviously PM as a direct result of that vote when he succeeded Margaret Thatcher.

This is a point that Labourites fail time & time again to recognise or acknowledge publicly when comparing him to Gordon Brown.

Is there something in the Labour inbreeding that stops them accepting a perfectly valid point?

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 09:58:55]

G.KING SUSSEX

Not my words; the words of Ian Duncan Smith.

People seem to have bought into the notion that it does not matter how much they borrow all will be well in the end as banks and building societies lend sensibly; well that’s another myth busted!

People who are driven by national house builders to put their names and a £100 deposit on a property which has not even had its foundations dug and has no set selling price will reap what they sowed.

House building is not rocket science, neither are builders rocket scientists, what they are however are shrewd and unscrupulous business men; keep the number of house completions below the demand figure then prices and competition will rise.

If house builders flooded the market with new builds as they easily could prices would plateau or indeed fall; owners seem to think that house prices are an indicator of how wealthy they are, they are not; they are an indicator of how wealthy their descendants and the Chancellor/Treasury may become.

If the price of your property has risen by 180% in the last decade and falls back provided you are still in the same house your loss is not financial, merely a lesser property value than previously calculated; if however you have moved on to keep up with the Joneses it is you that has shot yourself in the foot.

Only first time buyers and those who needed to move for work related moves should be delivered of our sympathies; prudence should be the watchword of us all.

[Victor, NW Kent 9 Apr 2008 09:41:13]

Peter

I cannot see how the ineptitude of the Major government excuses the calamitous failures of this one. Nor do I see how you counter claims that it has been all downhill since 1997 by talking about the period 1990-1992.

Is this putting the blame on the Conservatives for everything that has happened since 1997?

I note the frank admissions of IDS that Major and his team got things wrong. I have not so far heard any Minister admit to Labour failings - just a few junior Ministers have come out with truths.

For that matter I have not seen many admissions here by Labloggers that their Beloved Leaders have ever erred. They seem to regard them as faultless and god-like as even the worst failures attract hymns of praise.

[G.KING SUSSEX 9 Apr 2008 09:28:50]

Lest you forget:
Businesses closing,pledges on taxes broken,negative equity happening in homes,massive government debt,unemployment (after spinning figures) just as bad,crime rising,Yes this is UK under Labour.

[seb/uk 9 Apr 2008 09:10:44]

Whatever you think of Tony Blair and David Cameron,you have to admit their presentational skills are suave and sophisticated.
Gordon Brown is a different story altogether.He could hire as many style guru's as he likes,but still fail to impress.
This reminds me of an old adage my nan used to say,"you can't polish a ***d".

[Peter, Fife 9 Apr 2008 08:09:18]

To all those who complain all has been downhill since 1997 I think certain criteria exist, you were at school in 1997, you were not interested in politics, you were in a coma or you choose to have a selective memory.

The Major Years:
The Major years began when John Major took over as Prime Minister from Margaret Thatcher on November 27th 1990 without a General Election and with a recession, bank base rates between 14 and 6 per cent and inflation was 9.7 per cent

Unemployment rose from 1.75 million on the day he took office to a peak of just under three million.

House prices in the UK under John Major increased by 5%, falling by 14% after allowing for retail price inflation; negative equity was the result.

The prelude to Black Wednesday, Norman Lamont as Chancellor of the Exchequer announced an increase in bank base rates to 15%.
It was John Major, the then the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who advised that Britain join the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) in October 1990 because Margaret Thatcher has lost control over inflation; John Major was Prime Minister when ‘we’ left the ERM in such sensational style on Black Wednesday, September 16th, 1992.

Mr Major admits in his autobiography that Black Wednesday was a "political and economic calamity".

A Conservative’s retrospective view of those times:

"Spending went through the roof, taxes started to rise, and the result of all that - and the Exchange Rate Mechanism - is that we put real tightness on everyone," he says.
"Businesses went to the wall, we broke our pledges on taxes, there was negative equity in homes, the public felt hurt.
"Then we lectured them, and we seemed arrogant. We said it was all your fault, not our fault - you are the problem, not us."
Ian Duncan Smith: Telegraph 06/10/2002

Lest you forget!

[Trevor 8 Apr 2008 19:03:08]

"Quantifiable promises which can be validated post the election.
Posted by: Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 08:29:49 "

Promises, promises .... !
So why haven't they done these things - or anything worth talking about - in the past 11 YEARS ?

Spent it "planning and promising" whilst bleeding us dry with stealth taxes, eh ?

This country is now a sink. And only one party pulled the plug.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 17:03:46]

Peter the Piper
Please don't lecture me you do not have the right to know personal things about me.
I have every right to question what happens in Britain, and will continue to do so.
We have more people who come to SA for great heathcare on holiday beleive you me!

[Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 16:27:44]

Elizabeth Davies Cape Town

I have never indicated that you should not contribute to this blog; however I do challenge your right to how taxes are spent when you do not pay UK taxes.

As for access to the NHS I feel from your response I was spot on; holiday healthcare!

[Stephen Williams 8 Apr 2008 16:20:26]

carol-ann,

So will I see you down at Spec savers then when I go to buy a new pair of green bottle bottom glasses when you go to buy a new pair of rose tinted glasses!

The press has always been Tory dominated as around 90% support the Tories so it's hardly breaking news is it if you pardon the pun.

[Stephen Williams 8 Apr 2008 15:48:13]

The Morning Mail,

At no point in time in the past have I ever said that David Cameron would simply wave his magic wand and everything will be fine in Britain, although that is the impression that Tony Blair gave us prior to the 1997 general election for which I was one of those taken in by him & silly enough to believe him at the time with his Labour utopia.

What intrigues me most about you & all the other Labour luvvies sorry sheep is that how you can you sit there & spout off your Labourland propaganda & expect us to believe it much yourself believing it, do you ever go out & experience what is happening in the real world or have you locked yourselves away from all forms of contact for the last nearly 11 years.

Hand on heart, how can you honestly believe that Britain is better off after all the damage that your party has inflicted on it, yes the Tories made mistakes but they never handed over the country to Labour back in 97 with a massive debt 43 billion & still rising at the last count given that the Tories handed Labour a 30 billion surplus in 97.

It is easier trying to work out a woman’s mind than a Labour luvvies mind! I really do wonder what makes them tick to try to understand how you can possibly even begin to say that this country is far better off now under this shambolic government!

[Stephen Williams 8 Apr 2008 15:19:42]

Peter,

On reflection I was actually referring to the 1000 extra midwifes announced by Labour which brings the numbers back up to the previous level from years gone by before 100’s upon 100’s left the NHS as opposed to matrons.

Apologies for the confusion.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 15:19:12]

Peter the Piper
I see you are at it again, letting me know I am not allowed to contribute to this blog and mention anything about British politics as I do not pay taxes in Britain, shall have to watch my P's and Q's here as my English is very bad.
I said that most reasonable people can see the truth, Britain is in a mess and Labour put them in that position.
The two wars are Gulf 2 and Afghanistan, costing a small fortune. Bank of Brown is also a lost cause, a bottomless pit into which taxpayer's money falls.
Where I get my health care is my business, but it would not be in Britain with the state of the NHS under Labour that is for sure, I would probably die waiting.
But one of these next days I will be a British Pensioner, so I have a concern about my homeland, and you are probably thinking I haven't contributed anything...think on Peter, again my business not yours.
Want to know more about me I suggest you employ MI6.

[Jon, cephalonia, greece 8 Apr 2008 15:15:20]

Bottler repeats what B'lair has said and done. We have done a lot of Milking, but we have got a lot more Milking to do. Milking the tax payer dry. If elected for a 4th time, I fear that it will be the end of the country for good.

[Stephen Williams 8 Apr 2008 15:14:10]

Peter,

You know as well as I do that the spin rolled out by Labour claiming that the last Tory government started to get rid of the matrons is entirely that as Harold Wilson started to get rid of them in the 70's.

The Tories finished what Labour started.

[The Morning Mail 8 Apr 2008 14:34:26]

Those green bottle-bottom glasses worn by the Nucon apologists are so unfashionable as well as too thick to see through properly.
Maybe you should all go to specsavers and get some decent ones, then you will able to see clearly how shallow Dave is and the only thing that is keeping him in place is the NuCon dominated media run by his mates from Eton.

Posted by: carol-ann liverpool 8 Apr 2008 13:33:09

Spot on Carol-ann, you may upset NuCon appologists but you speak the truth.

I wonder just how deluded the blue rinse and blue tinted spec brigade are. Last year when Cammers deserted his constituency at the time of the floods to appear in Rwanda the knives were out. The grassroots are now braying for tax cuts but Cammers flip flops again on tax.

It is only a matter of time when spin merchant and spiv Cammers is found out for what he truly is. A fraud who can outspin Blair on any front.

[Victor, NW Kent 8 Apr 2008 14:28:19]

Thank you Peter

Your explanation of what Health Centres are sounds very much like my idea of what a hospital is - apart from being possibly run by GPs. Are these the much-vaunted centres where one can be seen when it suits you - the last lot of promises? Or are they the ones to be accomodated in supermarkets - that has come up a few times from various Health Ministers?

Will they be built on PFI contracts?

Will they be run by American companies accustomed to making huge profits from clinics in the States? Or will we simply raid some developing countries and lure their trained staff away? Or will the Polish plumber be followed by the Bulgarian brain surgeon?

Or will they just not happen at all as is usual with New Labour?

By the way - we were talking about quangos the other day. The NHS has to feed just over 100 quangos at a cost of just over £2-billion last year. Apart from that it is subject to rules and regulations issued by no less than 17 government departments apart from the quangos which have statutory authority to impose rules.

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 14:19:50]

"I do not know for a fact but I feel the site costs will be considerably reduced but protected with some form of legal clause"

Now this is unusual. Peter doesn't know for a fact. Well Peter, can I just say that on past record when it is a fact (AKA promise) it usually turns out not to be with this government so I wouldn't bet money on it.

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 14:14:37]

Carol-Ann.

The only people that need to apologise are the ministers in this government that have turned our country into what it has become.

A laughing stock, run by a very strange man, involved in two wars that we are going to spend decades trying to get out of.

The art of spin (which I had never heard mentioned prior to '97) is all conquering.

It tells us that our education system is wonderful, that our hospitals are the best in the world, that crime is falling...and all the rest of the rhetoric that we all know is untrue but they have said so often they probably half believe it themselves. We aren't very differnet from the Chinese..their media controls the lies by direct control and Labour control the lies by indirect control. i.e Spin.

Will Cameron & the Tories be any better..? Who knows. Quite probably not.

Has the political system been so devalued in this country that it is just an EEC style trough for the porkers? More that possibly I would say.

However, human nature makes us hope that things will change...one thing is for certain very few people want what we have now..

In this particular situation..a case of better the devil you don't know....

[carol-ann liverpool 8 Apr 2008 13:33:09]

Those green bottle-bottom glasses worn by the Nucon apologists are so unfashionable as well as too thick to see through properly.
Maybe you should all go to specsavers and get some decent ones, then you will able to see clearly how shallow Dave is and the only thing that is keeping him in place is the NuCon dominated media run by his mates from Eton.

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 13:24:03]

Peter

Unfortunately oppositions haven't the power to act but only to promise. Governments of course can act, or in Labour's case. dither.

We can only hope that the next Tory government keeps by it's policies. It hasn't had a good role model for the last 11 years but we can but hope....

[Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 12:57:24]

Victor,

70,000 houses will be built mostly on Government owned land, I do not know for a fact but I feel the site costs will be considerably reduced but protected with some form of legal clause; this is the surplus land which remained after the rest was sold off to their friends by Margaret Thatcher and John Major’s Governments, i.e. MOD sites all over the UK.

Houses I think will be privately built under some form of Government control which will defeat the current rationing of private houses by the majority of national house builders; rationed to maintain supply below demand and hence boost sale prices.

A health centre in my interpretation is a locally placed unit staffed by doctors, dentists, nurses, midwifes, physiotherapists, auxiliaries to take the strain off hospitals; these may or may not be led by GP practices.

“...As for the rest, Stephen has pointed out that promises are not actions...” like £1million pounds Inheritance Tax Threshold?

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 12:45:59]

"In Stephen Williams blue tinted world, Dave Cammers will wave his magic wand and everything will be fine in Britain. Get Real."

I think that you judge other people as yourself. I wouldn't think that Stephen or anyone else thinks that any government can clear this mess up quickly. At least you are admitting that there is something wrong that needs putting right I suppose. A slight lifting of your "red mist"??

However I am sure we are all very painfully aware that there is no short term solution...it's taken them 11 years to mess it up. Nobody is going to wave any wand and put this right overnight...by any means.

[Victor, NW Kent 8 Apr 2008 12:11:15]

Peter

Further to Stephen's rebuttal of Labour claims I will ask again - is the "government" going to pay for these 70,000 new homes each year? If so, where will the money come from?

By the way, what is a "health centre"? A hospital, a GP practice? Are they like the community hospitals that Labour has spent 11 years shutting down?
If they are to be built under private enterprise why is Labour claiming credit for them?

If they are indeed built how many years will it take for the promised 3-million new houses to be built? I make it well over 40 years.

At the present rate of population growth - mainly fuelled by immigration and the children of immigrants - of 2% annually, we can see an additional 10 million needed to be housed within the next 10 years. In that time Labour plans 700,000 new houses so that means each will have to accommodate over 13 people.

This is the same sort of careless planning that built 7,000 new prison places in 11 years whilst adding 35,000 to the prison population.

As for the rest, Stephen has pointed out that promises are not actions.

[The Morning Mail 8 Apr 2008 12:10:42]

In Stephen Williams blue tinted world, Dave Cammers will wave his magic wand and everything will be fine in Britain. Get Real.

You definately need a reality check, these are vast improvements on the total failure and misery brought on this country by Major and Lament, sorry Lamont, the most inept and incompetent PM ever.

[Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 12:10:41]

Stephen Williams

The Salmon report of 1966/67 brought about the demise of the post of matron; no Government in the intervening forty years has acted to reinstate this post/role; they did not leave the service.

You want all these benefits at no extra cost; you state that you “don’t believe a word this government says anymore”, I therefore see little point in progressing further.

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 8 Apr 2008 12:07:53]

Miranda,
Putting Gordon in front of a camera is not a good idea at the best of times, but if you are trying to sell something then it should never even be considered!

[David,Tiffanys Hotel,Blackpool 8 Apr 2008 12:05:35]

Ihave only one thing to say to the labour party,actually no its a line of a song!

AND NOW THE END IS NEAR ,BRONN & CO WILL FACE THE FINAL CURTAIN. Please stay as PM Mr Brown you are the Conservatives best weapon.

[Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 11:54:02]

Elizabeth Davies Cape Town

“...Maybe I am becoming delusional that the Conservatives may win the next general election, along with most other reasonable people in Britain...”

So now you claim to know the thoughts of most “...other reasonable people in Britain...”, other to who, you are in SA; I generally find those who claim to speak for the majority, the silent majority, or in this case “most other reasonable people in Britain” hold isolated opinions which they feel are bolstered by such claims which remain without validation.

As for the “two wars”, which two, Gulf 1, Gulf 2 or Afghanistan; I think you would be well advised to research which Conservative politicians backed those wars and still back them, even today, dodgy dossiers and all.

As you do not contribute to our tax system I see little point in explaining the nuances of the budget to you; unless of course you are one of the many health visitors we see returning when the reality of foreign hospital expenses loom before them.

[Stephen Williams 8 Apr 2008 11:18:21]

Peter,

3,000 extra Matrons – this only brings the numbers back up to the previous level from years gone by before 100’s upon 100’s of Matrons left the NHS, so no real extra staff then.

Free bus passes for over 60’s – were is the money to pay for men over 60 to receive a free bus pass? women over 60 already receive one; so the taxpayer is bled dry a bit more as usual then?

1106 schools built, rebuilt or refurbished – it sounds good but who believes government facts & figures anymore? is the taxpayer to be bled as usual while our schools plummet down the EU competitiveness league.

99.6% of cancer patients treated within a month of diagnosis – is obviously good news if people are not dying as much if the figures are correct as I don’t believe a word this government says anymore, but at the same time hospital waiting lists are on the up.

3600 neighbourhood police teams – who hoo!! more plastic police, sack the lot of them & employ real policemen with real powers of arrest so we don’t have plastic police hiding behind bushes because their frightened to arrest kids.

Every girl over 13 to be offered an injection against cervical cancer- good but again the taxpayer is bled a bit more as usual, this is obviously either another headline grabbing announcement or re-announcement or just purely another gimmick with no intention of seeing it through to the end.

7000 new prison places – why didn’t Labour build more prisons years ago when they started to come down so heavy on petty crime, why could they not see that the rising crime would fill up the prisons sooner rather than later, Gordon Brown was responsible for consistently refusing the money to build new prisons over the years.

150 new health centres – were is the money to pay for 150 new health centres; Britain is skint so we simply can’t afford to build them as this would cost us billions of pounds.

£220,000 for every secondary school head – why are head teachers getting so much money, so a head teacher’s salary is to be more than the British PM’s, absolutely ridiculous.

300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in maths – why are they falling behind in the first place if our schools are churning out so many great students; this is the nearest thing to an admission from the government that their education policy is in tatters.

300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in English – if the schools weren’t flooded with foreigners or immigrants in the first pace then this wouldn’t be an issue.

250,000 pupils who have suffered a poor start in education to be offered assistance – again, this is an admission from the government that their education policy is in tatters.

70,000 new homes to be built each year – oh really, all the new development homes in my area that have been built were priced up at normal market valuation so what is the point? £200,000 for a one bed flat, absolutely crazy.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 11:11:12]

Peter the Piper
I await your answer to my question about the rest of the budget finances. No posting yet!
Maybe I am becoming delusional that the Conservatives may win the next general election, along with most other reasonable people in Britain.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 10:49:08]

Fellipe, England
You could be right, it may be "the night of the long knives" for Brown before the next general election. If Labour do badly in the coming London and local elections, I would not like to hazzard a guess at his fate, especially after the poll showing him to be worse than Blair as PM.

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 10:26:55]

On the subject of losers. Was anyone else ashamed that McBottler allowed Chinese thugs to provide security for the torch?

I may not agree with the Australian PM's politics but when he said (while standing next to our excuse for a PM) "We will not be having Chinese security forces, or the Chinese security services, providing security for the torch when it is in Australia. We - Australia - will be providing that security." it may me proud to be Australian...which I am not...but hopefully one of my long lost cousins is.

There is serious talk that McBottler won't be PM when the next election looms...oh please let him be...anyone else in charge and they might stand a chance.

[seb/uk 8 Apr 2008 10:08:01]

3,000 extra Matrons
Free bus passes for over 60’s
1106 schools built, rebuilt or refurbished
99.6% of cancer patients treated within a month of diagnosis
3600 neighbourhood police teams
Every girl over 13 to be offered an injection against cervical cancer
7000 new prison places
150 new health centres
£220,000 for every secondary school head
300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in maths
300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in English
250,000 pupils who have suffered a poor start in education to be offered assistance
70,000 new homes to be built each year

Quantifiable promises which can be validated post the election.

At what cost?,we should have gold plated public services for all the billions thrown at them.That's the point!.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 10:04:16]

Peter, Fife
Did the rest of the money from the budget go to pay for two wars and a failed bank?

[mike,spain 8 Apr 2008 09:10:33]

For a labour government the removal of the 10p tax bracket is without doubt a kick in the teeth for the low paid and pensioners.

It exposes the 10p for what ir was an election con by Gordon. They say that tax credits compensate, well Gordon they don`t.

They can no longer represent the working man. Why did they not keep this tax band and add 1p on the over 60K earners. This is shameful and yet again exposes the crude ill thought out taxing that is going on. Listening to the electorate, don`t make me laugh.

This is now especially hard with interest rates rising, mortgage payments, local taxes and fuel costs on the move.

Tell me this, everyone in work has to pay benefits in kind taxes on some expenses and allowances such as a mortgage subsidy if you work for a Bank. Do MP`s have the same ?

Not surprising living abroad looks attractive. Beer 3 euros a pint, rates 200-300 euros a year. Short winters, road tax 80 euros, house insurance 200-250 euros. Meal out about 12-15€ per head. Wine 3-5 euros for average quality. Petrol 1/3rd less. Low cost hols because you are already here. Virtually no speed cameras. High speed trains across Spain into France.

The difference in Spain is that the national government does not do anything. Wheras in UK it controls everyones lives to an intimate degree.

We have a smoking ban but no one takes any notice unless the cafe owner decides to ban it. You are treated like grown ups.

Yes I still work in the UK and pay the taxes but choose to live there, never. Destroyed by Labour.

[Peter, Fife 8 Apr 2008 08:29:49]

Labour Election Broadcast, locally on a national basis.
3,000 extra Matrons
Free bus passes for over 60’s
1106 schools built, rebuilt or refurbished
99.6% of cancer patients treated within a month of diagnosis
3600 neighbourhood police teams
Every girl over 13 to be offered an injection against cervical cancer
7000 new prison places
150 new health centres
£220,000 for every secondary school head
300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in maths
300,000 pupils to be offered catch up classes in English
250,000 pupils who have suffered a poor start in education to be offered assistance
70,000 new homes to be built each year

Quantifiable promises which can be validated post the election.

[seb/uk 8 Apr 2008 08:12:57]

Your numbers mean nothing Brown,I live the reality of your poor policies.

[Fellipe, England 8 Apr 2008 08:10:22]

Thinking about this further. How dare this man say that after 11 years they still have more to do...what have they been doing all this time?

What should we do...trust them for another 11 years on their past record? They have to be joking.

This PM just doesn't get it does he? He IS Mr Bean. A strange man with a dollop of make up on his head and one trouser leg tucked into a sock...that's it...that's him.

The 2008 version of Michael Foote. And that is one very big reason why Labour will be out at the next election. Trite it may be but image is everything these days. And McBottler's image is one of the sort of bloke you don't want to turn up at the pub.

Counting down to sanity....

[G.KING SUSSEX 8 Apr 2008 07:54:03]

I turned it off.Couldnt stand the false smile and spin.
Please lets have a general election and get rid of this aweful government.We have heard enough,experienced enough,been taxed enough,been told enough,been lied to enough,been sold down the river enough.Once upon a time we were the envy of the world,respected and a great nation.Look at us now under labour.

[Big Dave 8 Apr 2008 07:45:25]

Wow that video was like looking through a window into the magical Utopia that Labour voters must live in!

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 8 Apr 2008 06:55:15]

Just watched the video...can Mr Brown be serious that he asked for text messages. Brave move there, I wonder what sort of messages he will be getting...must run something like this:
1.You already done too much, time to go.
2.New poll shows that you are worse than Tony Blair.
3.What's this taxing the poor to death.
Etc etc. Be careful what you ask for!

[Craig 8 Apr 2008 00:35:14]

The Tories here are quick to attack but just what in this broadcast do they object to! I suppose its because it doesn't smear Brown, it puts forward a real agenda for change, and it meets peoples aspirations. That is something that opportunist and phoney Cameron will never achieve.

[Trevor 7 Apr 2008 21:31:56]

Yep. Done a lot all right.

I'm one who got "done".

£20,000 off my pension fund in 12 months. Cheers Brown.

[Rob, England 7 Apr 2008 21:15:46]

"We've done a lot, but we've got a lot more to do."

Yes, there’s still alot left to destroy in Britain, sooner this lying cheating, thieving criminal government is removed the better. If we get an election that isn’t stolen or rigged.

[Bernard from Horsham 7 Apr 2008 19:18:26]

Yeah Gordon, you've done a lot to damage Britain, what voters are worried about is what you are going to do next....
Whatever it is, they won't like it.... or trust it for that matter.

[t millard epsom 7 Apr 2008 17:49:37]

blair and brown have ruined this once great country.
we are now being told what we can and cant do by brussels the next thing will be the euro . the pound is not far short in value with the euro so some bright spark will say we might as well change to the euro. i can see it happening

[T. England 7 Apr 2008 17:24:58]

More to do! McBrown must think we are gluten for punishment!
Life under Labour hurts!
Time to stop the pain!

Bruce Hulmes! Spot on!

[Sid in Gateshead 7 Apr 2008 17:05:51]

Proud of what he's done so far, the man's delusional. Just look at what he says the rate of inflation is.

[Fellipe, England 7 Apr 2008 17:03:42]

And other fairy stories....has anyone been in a NHS hospital lately?

[Bruce Hulmes 7 Apr 2008 16:47:10]

Yes their right for once, another eleven years of this shambolic party of morons and the country will be well and truley crucified.
We can see what they are aiming for for England.
Put on your body armour prior to going out for the milk.
Go and collect you weekly living allowance.
Only allowed to use your twelve year old car once per month due to petrol being £25 per gallon and the roads full of Turkish and East European drivers who have complained to the governemt about all those English drivers with tax and insurance.
The troops will not be coming home by Christmas because Christmas as been stopped because it upset the
9 million muslims living in England, this aslo means Brown never lied when he said the troops would be home by Christmas because there is no Christmas, simple.
The government says our schools now turn out the best educated children in the world, and the most ligual none, can actually speak English though, it is just that the rest of the world disagree, but Brown said we do so it is.
We buy all our energy off the French who now control all our nuclear plants and charge us ten times more then they charge their French customers, but Brown said they don't so they don't easy.
Nato has invaded Iran,North Korea and the
Soloman Islands, as these are the only countries not in Nato.
The war in Afghanistan is over by the simple means of moving the countries entire population to England, to grow poppies.
We now have pedestrian conjestion charges on all pavements and by that we mean from your front door and
along your garden path.
Yes the future is bright for all those outside of England.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 7 Apr 2008 16:45:48]

Yeah, Labour have done a lot...they have ruined a country, please don't let them do more?

[alan mcpartland dublin 7 Apr 2008 16:39:45]

How much longer do they need for God's sake after 11 years in power with an overwhelming majority. Much done....yeah much of it did'nt work either.Their real achievements in the past 11 years could be listed on the back of an air mail sticker....a postage stamp would be far too big.

[E Welshman 7 Apr 2008 16:13:13]

Why are we worried?

Bottler's got it sorted !

[Khalid 7 Apr 2008 15:59:56]

And theres me [Walking On Clouds-Dj Tiesto]!