Niall remarked last week that some of the Prime Minister's favourite phrases are losing their potency (one might say.)

I think there are a fair few Tories who long for the day their leader thinks of something to replace "Sharing the proceeds of growth."

It wasn't particularly snappy when they dreamed it up in the first place, but now that Mervyn King has warned growth will slip back to 1% at the end of this week, voters will hardly be licking their lips...

Here's a more detailed assessment of David Cameron's Birmingham speech.

Comments

[Madnurse 20 May 2008 16:54:33]

Mike:
Thanks for the reply.
I note the contents of the reply and now understand the reasons you believe the name calling is justified, although I do not necessarily agree with those reasons.

I note however that, Mr Cameron did work in the real world outside of politics, something I believe Mr Brown did not do. We could argue, regarding Mr Brown, as to whether being the youngest ever rector of Edinburgh University is really a "Job in the real world." I suspect that a job in academia is just as outside of the real world as politics is.

I see from Mr Browns biography that he is indeed a bright man in an academic context. It is sad for your party that he is not at all charismatic, especially when compared to his predecessor. In my view, someones lack of charisma should not be held against them, however, as image and presentation becomes more of an issue in the politics of today because of the amount of time spent in the media spotlight, I do feel it is an issue for Mr Brown. Mr Cameron, although I feel he sometimes comes across as pompous,(Sorry Victor) is far better at presentation and getting his message across compared to Mr Brown. Perhaps he was elected as our leader as a suitable adversory to Mr Blair, I don't know.

Mr Cameron may, like me, have difficulty in spelling and grammar, I don't know, however, before he can lead the country, he will have to be voted into that position by the electorate, something Mr Brown did not have to do. I don't think the electorate have warmed to Mr Brown and I feel the more Mr Brown trys to appeal to the electorate by smiling etc, it puts them off even more. Perhaps he should just be himself.

As a staunch Labour Party supporter, do you believe the party is wholly behind Mr Brown at this moment in time?
Do you detect panic within the Labour Party and it's supporters in relation to Mr Brown and do you believe he will lead your party into the next general election?
Do you see the potential for a party split and the resulting damage to your party, as was the case in my party, when my party pushed Mrs Thatcher out of office?

Do you feel that the world economic downturn will cause harm to Mr Brown and with the benefit of hindsight, should he have put some of the proceeds from the years of boom, away for a rainy day such as we are seeing now?

[Bruce Hulmes 20 May 2008 16:47:21]

Mike simpson
He can't do any worse than Gordon Brown then, the product of a Tory supporting family, selective education thanks to his father and a top university. Had a passion for Africa all his life but never felt like spending any period there when he was younger actually doing something.

[neither/niether 20 May 2008 16:32:35]

Morning Mail

Vince Cable is not a good example in using the word vacuus. You don't seem to understand the meaning of expressions.
Hug a hoody has once again gone through the Labour spin machine. It goes in White and comes out dyed Black. He mean't it by saying, we don't think your bad just because the way your dressed.

[Mike Simpson 20 May 2008 15:17:51]

Posted by: Madnurse 20 May 2008 14:39:04

Charlatan means one who pretends to have knowledge. Traditionally it refered to quacks that pretended to have medical knowledge.

Mn, I am very well aware of the dictionary meaning of "Charlatan" but I am struck at how apt and accurate it is when it is applied to the Opposition Leader DCC.

After all, consider Shallow Dave's credentials and pedigree for the top job. He used to be a 2nd or even 3rd rate PR flunky for Carlton TV, where he was noted in the 'trade' for his dodgy press releases littered with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors - not exactly what one would want for a leader of a nation as great as ours. Then, DCC became Chief Adviser to Norman Lamont during the worst financial crisis 'Black Wednesday' that Britain has ever experienced.

Do you seriously ask why I have such a view of David "Charlatan" Cameron (DCC) given his track record and considerable form as an under-performer?!

[Madnurse 20 May 2008 14:39:04]

Mike Simpson:
Charlatan means one who pretends to have knowledge. Traditionally it refered to quacks that pretended to have medical knowledge.

As you know I am not Mr Cameron's biggest fan and I have been asked by some on here to give him a chance and to stop knocking him, this I have done.

Calling someone charlatan or cammers or sales man or toff etc etc is very easy. What is more difficult is to say why you believe he is a charlatan; do you pretend to have knowledge about tax cuts and the cuts in sevices that you constantly claim? Do you not understand that getting value for money is more important than the amount spent. A simple example for you.
If you purchased a Mars bar in shop one for fifty pence and then went to another shop where the same Mars bar costs fifty five pence, is the dearer one better? No, of course it's not, it is the dame thing, only one is ten percent cheaper. This is what is needed in government and its agencies including the NHS.

Now, I know it is very painful to see the party you love failing and it is natural for someone, so in love with their party, to lash out at anything and anyone they feel are attacking it, why, even I felt the same in 1997 when my party went through a similar phase.
Mike it is necessary for you to come to terms with it, your party is very unpopular and the public want them out.

You praise Mr Brown, just as you did Mr Blair, in your world, it appears to me that, in order for the sun to shine, Mr Brown needs to be standing, this is not the case in the real world.
You are right, not all the woes of the world are down to Mr Brown but, he has contributed to the problems.
He has made small gestures to put right a few things which you praise, the snag is that many of the problems were caused by your party's policies in the first place. How can you congratulate Mr Brown for putting right the ten pence tax fiasco for example, when he created it? etc etc.

[Tony, Essex 20 May 2008 14:01:32]

Mike Simpson

You use the word "Charlatan" about David Cameron, so what word would you use for a man who says 2500 troops will come home from iraq and havent and knowing they wouldnt.

Crime is falling, not according to my brother who is serving policeman, recorded crime might be, but as my brother states, so many crimes now go unreported as the public has no faith in the justice system and what worries him in the police themselves.

i could list so many things that labour promised but did not deliver, the lies they have told, does none of that matter.

Whatever you think of David Cameron or any other politician of any party, they dont come close to Labours lies and misleads.

[Tony, Essex 20 May 2008 13:43:44]

Big Dave 10/10 hehe

[Tony 20 May 2008 13:40:16]

Craig

My comments to Mike Simpson are my views of his blinkered post and if you dont like them i dont care, they are my views.

You presume to knows what i believe, i havent been sucked in by no-one, i like what David Cameron has had to say so far, when the election comes and we hear more of what he wants for the country, that will be what i decide whether to vote for him and his party.

You state things about MRSA,
well i work in a hospital and i can tell you, doctors(THE MAIN PROBLEM), nurses and ward clerks, still do not wash their hands, entering a ward or leaving or between patients, if they bothered to such a simple thing you would see a massive drop in MRSA. I dont know if it is arrogance or laziness but it is the biggest problem and so wrong.

You talk as if the Tories will cut this, cut that, how do you know, like most Labour supporters you just mislead and in some cases lie and that is what makes me so angry.

The personal attacks, the nastiness and spite aimed at David Cameron is unjustified for a man who has done nothing to warrant or deserve it.

I have no doubt that Gordon Brown and David Cameron are good men who want to make this country better, one has proved beyond doubt for me he is not up to it, and the other may prove he can, time will tell.

Labour for me have made such a mess of running this country its untrue, attacking what the tories will or wont do, does not change what a mess Labour has made.

[Mike Simpson 20 May 2008 13:21:32]

Posted by: Craig 19 May 2008 17:36:45

Thanks Craig for your stock defence and just for talking some plain good ole-fashioned commonsense.

The reason that I have a go at David "Charlatan" Cameron is because he is full of empty rhetoric designed to be easy on the ear but has no basis in reality as nothing is costed, most if not all of his statements consist of wish lists and aspirations, with very little based on what is actually deliverable/achievable. To hear “Charlatan” Cameron talk, you can just imagine that ‘all will be well with the world with the election of a NuCON government’. Frankly, that is ridiculous. We will still have a global world-wide credit crunch, and difficulties that face modern economies the world over.

“Charlatan” Cameron should be getting taken to task over his empty promises of tax-cuts which he knows are not on the cards as the NuCONS have been moved onto the Labour agenda of preserving public services; albeit that given half a chance the more malicious of the Right-wing in their party would inflict savage cuts in our vital public services just to shave the tax bill off the ultra rich and wealthy of our society. A leopard doesn’t change their spots, and the NuCONS are a con-trick party that will promise the earth but ultimately will deliver nothing other than create widespread poverty, increase the chances of another Tory inspired recession and cause problems in the delivery of our vital services that will require a decade or more of investment just to bring Britain back onto a level playing field again.

[Big Dave, Northants 20 May 2008 13:08:03]

Well if Craig is going to jump to Mikes defence I'll jump to Tonys. Hang on I'll put my 'Morning Mike' hat on...

Spot on Tony you are absolutely right. 'Bottler' Brown has totally messed up the country and the people the continue to support 'Spend all our money' Broon are just plain delusional and dangerous.

There, how was that? Marks out of 10 anyone :P

[Victor, NW Kent 20 May 2008 10:15:05]

Craig

A quotation that all socialists should know well is "A journey of a 1000 leagues starts with one simple step".

You might also realise that goals are important - stepping sideways and back and forth will not take any distance off the 1000 leagues. David Cameron is expressing an ideal, a goal to aim for and it is to cut waste and needless bureaucracy. The intention gives rise to the deed.

Labour has always, whenever in power, been noted for huge increases in bureaucracy and for enacting unenforceable legislation. Cameron needs to act in the completely opposite direction and has said that is what he will do.

As you well know the battle is lost for Labour and we just await the General Election so that they can depart. On present polls more than 40 Labour Ministers will lose their seats and may be forced to try to find real jobs.

Get used to the idea.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 20 May 2008 09:48:47]

Morning Mail
Brown's Britain has brought about the situation that both parents have to work in order to survive. Also Brown's Britain has encouraged single parent families. There a a lot of children who wander the streets of Britain taking out their frustrations on innocent people, they are the ASBO crowd and proud of it.
Cameron has looked at this problem in depth, along with Ian Duncan-Smith, at least they are trying to solve the "hoodie" problem which is more than you can say for Brown and his government, who slap these ASBOS on people like pinning medals on them and nothing is done.

[The Morning Mail 19 May 2008 23:19:11]

Vince Cable hit the nail on the head by describing Cammers speech as vacuus. That word also sums up Dave 'Hug a Hoody' Cameron extremely well.

[Ian, Lancashire 19 May 2008 20:11:43]

Remember "24hrs to save the NHS" and yet a decade on our town's main dental practice is going private because of operational issues with the NHS leaving many of us wondering how far we will have to go for NHS treatment.
Slogans, sound-bites or whatever too often come back to haunt people. As I type this I feel the hand of history on my shoulder.
It's not just Labour though, all parties are guilty of trivialising; but Labour tried to turn it into an art form. Shame it was based on Damien Hirst or Tracey Emin and not Turner or Renoir, not surprising though with Alistair Campbell using one of the brushes.

[JH 19 May 2008 18:10:27]

Sorry Joey..I know you are probably looking for balance but 'sharing the proceeds of growth' isnt a slogan it is a policy' with real and clear meaning. Also, the forecast you are talking about is now not 2-3 years time when the Tories will be in power. Other than that nice try. ;-)

With regard to Labour supporters talking about black holes and unfunded committments..I am sorry but your beloved leader completely destroyed that line of attack last week with the £2.9bn bribe..totally out of nowhere and Labour's own unfunded blackhole in the Labour's increasingly perilous public finances. Tax cuts are back on the agenda as Davey C stated so brilliantly today..Labour's tax and waste of the last ten years will soon be over.

[Craig 19 May 2008 17:36:45]

Mike Simpson

Are you a total and utter numpty or do you practice, you talk about the conservatives £12bn black hole, after the waste and utter imcompetent running of this country under Labour, the debt this country is in is because of Gordon Brown and his total disregard for any kind of prudence.

You and your type are why i despair at what has happened to this country, you support Labour but cant see what an absolute mess that they have made.

Blind fools following the piper, god help us all until this government are gone.

Tony - How dare you talk to Mike like that. It is not he who is the fool Look in the mirror.

Look at MRSA. We now almost have a cure due to Scientists who have been backed by Labour investment. In almost every budget Labour have supported Science and provided tax breaks (Targeted tax cuts for companies to invest in R&D, not mindless wasteful tax cuts thast would be proposed by Cameron!)Brown recognises the need to improve skills for everyone if Britain is to compete that is why they have a policy to increase the number of apprenticeships and keep kids at school intil they are 18. That, Tony, is investment in the future of Britain. All cameron talks is about sharing the proceeds of growth. What do you think that means for gods sake!! Small Tax cuts for the individual are for sure but that equates to large cuts in public services. A few pounds more in your pocket is more important to you than reducing levels of crime, educating our children or waiting lists in the NHS. Of course it doesn't matter if you can afford to send your kids to a nice school like Cameron. You have beeen sucked right in by meaninglkess comments like 'I will cut waste and bureaucracy' He has never told you how and you have a go at Mike for being stupid

Those are the real choices facing the UK and the real difference between the Parties.

I am of ffor a lie down. I feel a headache coming on. How fockle the British public can be!!

[neither/niether 19 May 2008 17:30:16]

Pleased with DCs approach to getting Great Britain back on track with principles..
He will get my support. but if he doesn't stand by those principals he will soon lose that support.

Where that leave us, because this lots pathetic!!! and can't see any good politians from Labour. The liberals have one or two but afraid of pensionable age.

[T.J. from Ireland 19 May 2008 17:02:37]

I don't care, I still think Mike's on a complete wind-up here. He makes up the comments, then sits back and smiles at the reactions and replies.

I know; I used to do that with a certain Football Supporters Club in Glasgow, until they cottoned on and banned me!!

[Merv. Beszant, Dubai 19 May 2008 17:02:32]

Mike,
With Gordon as the P.M. I don't really think it will be necessary for the Tories to con the good people of Crewe and Nantwich, as I should imagine that they have already decided which way they are going to vote!

[Victor, NW Kent 19 May 2008 16:50:20]

Trevor

You are perfectly right about the increased powers that are assumed by local Councils. These go far beyond the powers that we think we give them when we elect them as guardians of local community services. Many Councils are now run by Gauleiters with a small army of enforcers. John Stuart Mill, whom Brown loves so much, said that the business of living is best left to those who have to do it, without State interference or undue limitations. I forget the exact words but they had an impact on me long ago when I first read them. They started me on my journey from Labour as a youth to Conservative as an adult.

On another matter I agree that we must see an end to the repetitive use of catchwords in Westminster politics. "Hard-working families" are cherished by all parties and "Sharing the proceeds of growth" has long since ceased to have any impact. "Boom and Bust" runs in about 11 year cycles. "Lifting a million out of poverty" means nothing to those who have been uplifted but still feel poor.

It is fresh thinking, new ideas that we need, not convenient cliches and failed policies reshaped to ensure further failure.

[Trevor 19 May 2008 16:30:03]

David Cameron - in whom I had little confidence for some time after he got the job - is at last on the right track in saying that he will stop crippling taxes and fund lower taxation by eliminating the waste, needless bureaucracy, junketing, astonishing profligacy and meddlesome and generally unnecessary interference in our everyday lives and affairs by NuLabour running dogs.
Let's start with the 600,000 new bureaucrats that Brown has allowed to be appointed, and find out what good - if any - they are doing. Then let's get rid of this Stalinist attitude of central government that has been aped by local authorities to the extend that - never mind traffic wardens and policemen - even bloody DUSTMEN are now threatening us with fines and non-collection of our rubbish, and delighting in ordering us around.
("Rules must be obeyed" says pompous Norwich City Council for the second time in a month after taking absolutely ludicrous over-the-top action against old people committing very trivial offences against the Bin Use diktats.
Let's show them who is going to MAKE those rules, and then tell the jumped up jobsworths to enforce them SENSIBLY - or else.)
Under NuLabour, the tail has wagged the dog for more than long enough.
Time to let these bolshy public "servants" know that THEY work for US and not the other way around ... and that they are paid to ease our path through this life, not to make the ride as bumpy as possible.

[Tony, Essex 19 May 2008 15:58:27]

Deary me, Mike you answer questions just like your party, oh sorry you dont answer, i've watched you and other Labour supporters on here say assorted things about the Conservatives including say toff this, toff that, no policies, salesman Dave, yet never answer valid questions of fact about your party

I find you and the rest of the blind Labour supporters make me sick. I dont have an affinity to any party but I can see the damage your wonderful party has done.

Fair play to you for sticking up for your party, but try to open your eyes to the utter waste of money and unbelievable lies told by them that as an outsider I can see.

[Madnurse 19 May 2008 15:11:02]

Mike:

Sadly and somewhat amusingly, when someone supports a party that is completely vacant of ideas and clearly in trouble over their heads, name calling is all they have left.

I would have thought that, even the most ardent supporter of Labour would have kept quiet about financial black holes, given their unfunded U turn over the doubling of the ten pence tax rate. Whats this and next year's borrowing requirement?

The country, during the most affluent period in world history and under the stewardship of Labour, finds it is having to borrow more and more just to pay for labour's wasteful policies.
Saving money Mike, does not mean cuts in frontline services. A vast sum of money can be saved by cutting down on needless pen pushers and box tickers. Non jobs, of which there are thousands, can be cut. Diversity officers in local councils spring to mind as a prime example, as do the number of spin doctors employed by government. Honesty is what the people want, not spin.

How else could we save money?
Stop sending endless glossy brochures by first class post to tell us how well they are spending our money. Cut down on political correctness monitoring etc etc. I could go on.

Oil is at an all time high, Mr Brown not only has the money from the increase in the value of the country's oil assets, he has the increased value of the VAT on the same, as well as record high taxation and yet he still can't or won't live within his means.

Here is a basic economic principle that you and your party would do well to adhere to:
Earn one pound, spend ninety nine pence, save one penny equals heaven; Earn one pound, spend one pound and a penny equals hell. The word hell could be swopped for Labour Government.

We are borrowing money hand over fist to give away to other countries. How prudent is that?

It is no good quoting soundbites straight from Milbank, people don't believe anything the government sayes, it is a little like someone trying to convert a non believer to Christianity using the bible. If the person does not believe in the bible, quoting it will have no effect. People don't believe in Labour, so quoting them serves no purpose.

[E Welshman 19 May 2008 15:06:43]

There's one thing for certain - Bottler would never use the phrase 'sharing the proceeds of growth'.

He would just take it all from us in taxes.

[Mike Simpson 19 May 2008 15:05:31]

Posted by: Tony, Essex 19 May 2008 14:26:03

Tony, Essex - I think you answered your own question rather well.

[Elizabeth Davies Cape Town 19 May 2008 14:51:48]

Mike Simpson
I watched Cameron's speech, I thought he spoke a lot of sense, and good old fashioned values.
Bye the way, if Brown and his Brownies stay in power another two years Britain will have "black holes" all over the place, and the Labour party will be sent to the Tower.LOL

[Khalid 19 May 2008 14:38:40]

[People Are People_Depeche Mode]

[Tony, Essex 19 May 2008 14:26:03]

Mike Simpson

Are you a total and utter numpty or do you practice, you talk about the conservatives £12bn black hole, after the waste and utter imcompetent running of this country under Labour, the debt this country is in is because of Gordon Brown and his total disregard for any kind of prudence.

You and your type are why i despair at what has happened to this country, you support Labour but cant see what an absolute mess that they have made.

Blind fools following the piper, god help us all until this government are gone.

[Victor, NW Kent 19 May 2008 14:22:56]

Mike

I am sorry that you have once again to bring back the silly name calling. Adam's blog had become quite good reading when the two main class warriors retired.

Cameron pointed out quite clearly that it is essential for the country's finances to be better run. He said there would be no quick fix. As 20% of the working age population is on the government pay roll that will indeed be a huge obstacle. Another 20% do not work at all so the 60% who contribute to the production of revenue and GNP have to support the 40% who don't.

Since you didn't see it, I suggest you read the speech before you criticise it.

By the way talking about the 6 or 8 or 10 or 12 billion pounds black hole has paled into insignificance as we see what Brown and Darling have done. Even Labour MPs do not use that anymore.

[Colin 19 May 2008 14:17:22]

Get over yourself Mike Simpson, if you think (or are trying to kid anyone else) that the Labour partys problems are because of David Cameron, you're as daft as your party leader.

To an unbiased voter, the very fact that the electorate en masse would even consider voting conservative let alone actually do it, shows just how much of a mess your party is in.

You'll win no credibility simply regurgitating the same old nonsense and slagging off the opposition if you don't acknowledge your own partys very obvious and frequent failings first.

[Mike Simpson 19 May 2008 13:57:33]

Sounds as if David "Charlatan" Cameron is getting his excuses in first. This is tantamount to “Charlatan” openly admitting that he couldn’t run the economy better than Labour; moreover his party’s fiercest supporters want tax cuts for the rich and wealthy – how will this be funded?

The Tories £12bn black hole is shaping up to be the biggest potential abyss and liability the British people have ever been offered. Hopefully, the voters in Crewe & Nantwich won’t fall for this massive con-trick by the CONservatives.

[T. England 19 May 2008 13:33:31]

Madnurse!
You're right when you say "politicians, of all parties, are no longer able to give off the cuff answers!
For example!
Jacqueline smith (Labour),said that years ago she had taken cannabis on more than two occasions, this she said was an honest answer to a question!
Good for her ;-)
Shame she became a hypocric & said the usuall wrong thing about the strength of canabis back then! There was & still are different strengths of weed!

So what happens! People are still pulling her up for admiting this! Never fair or happy are we!

The thing is, we are so used to politcians telling us what we want to hear & the truth being the last thing they want to tell,
what are politicians supposed to do? Pretend they are human?

[Bernard from Horsham 19 May 2008 13:30:45]

They may well not be licking their lips, but whose fault will it be that there's little in the kitty short term.
Labour have taxed a lot and spent even more... and are now even devoid of any vision of the future except more tax and more spend. Its the politics of a bankrupt Govt.

[Steve, London 19 May 2008 13:30:05]

"Sharing the proceeds of growth." is a good quote/idea I think; it summarises everything that's wrong about labour (ie that they don't do it), and puts forward a positive general ethos that'll put the economy/country back on track.

It's infinitely better than all labour's statements, especially Gordon Browns, which are basically just awkward re-hashes of false/misleading statistics.

Growth will happen again one day (assuming labour get kicked out), and when that happens I hope David Cameron sticks to his guns on his quote.

"some of the Prime Minister's favourite phrases are losing their potency" - hmmm, I don't think they ever had any in the first place. Besides which nobody believes a word he says anymore.

[Madnurse 19 May 2008 12:30:37]

I think it is sad that politicians, of all party, are no longer able to give off the cuff answers and must resort to soundbites and other learned pre prepared phrases.

I really believe a politician would make the public warm more to them if they appeared to be talking honestly. I think this was Mr Johnson's appeal.

I think it speaks volumes that politicians appear to believe that, the electorate are so stupid and that if slogans and soundbites are repeated often enough we shall start to believe them.